Full punctuation

[colint]

I've a temporary assignment for a bossie that likes full punctuation - when I learnt to type we needed to learn both, since things were just changing (he said, aging himself!) open was coming in, but we might have needed full in our first jobs.

Some 20 years on, I've managed not to say "get with the times"; not least because bossie is incredibly traditional (did I say old fashioned?).  Fortunately, I can remember most of it, but something that eludes me is reaching the stage of annoying me - not least, because I can't find any reference on t'Internet!

At the end of a letter, "Yours faithfully" (or sincerely) is followed by a comma, so is the name followed by a full stop?  If there is a title or dept beneath the name, should the name have a comma and then the title/dept have a full stop?

In some ways, it's rather nice to have a nostalgia trip - only with the convenience of a word processor, rather than returning to a typewriter and Tipp-Ex!

I'd be particularly keen for a UK (or ought I type "U.K."?!) reply, since I know conventions differ - not least, "Dear Sir" being followed by a comma or colon, depending.

Many thanks!

[gee4]

I was taught no punctuation as a typist.  However some of our bosses will be old school and therefore if they wish it to be inserted just go along with it.  If I was drafting a letter of my own for example, I would not insert commas or punctuation eg.

Mr Joe Bloggs
Managing Director
J B Enterprises
Toytown
TT1 0AB

Dear Joe

Further to your letter of......

[colint]

I understand that Gee, and it's what I normally do.  However, things haven't always been that way and when it was normal to include punctuation your example would have been

Mr Joe Bloggs,
Managing Director,
J.B. Enterprises,
TOYTOWN.
TT1 0AB

Dear Joe,

(Note no fullstop after Mr in UK, even when using full punctuation - because the abbreviation contains both the first and final letter of the original word.  Also, the full stop (instead of a comma) after the final line of the address, excluding the post code - which has never had any punctuation, nor should it be underlined.)

However, at the other end of the letter, the complimentary close always had a comma after it (in full punctuation), but I can't remember if the author's name had a full stop after it or not.  Further, if it did, but the person's title or their department was typed underneath his/her name, did the name now get a comma and the full stop go after the title/dept?

ie

Open punctuation is

Yours sincerely

A N OTHER
Operations Manager

but was full punctuation

Yours sincerely,

A.N. OTHER,
Operations Manager.

Or what?

I'm sure it doesn't matter to most, and so long as most of the punctuation is there, bossie prolly won't mind/notice - but I have an enquiring mind and need to know!

[gee4]

I would set the ending as follows -

Yours sincerely


______________
J Bloggs
Managing Director



Regardless of what your preference is, just make sure you are consistent.

[colint]

Just to clarify, I'm looking for help with full punctuation.  Can anyone remember from 20+ years ago?

[Dusty *]

20+ years ago - I remember those days - took all my typewriting exams on a huge manual typewriter!

In fact I've only just stopped using punctuation, so I have just looked back at some old day file copies.  I would have typed the following.

Yours sincerely,




A.N. OTHER,
Managing Director.

[gee4]

I do remember 20 years ago and I was taught with no punctuation.

[itsme_calista]

Twenty years here and I was taught no punctuation as well.  In fact it's only since I worked for this boss, who is American, that I've had to refresh my own memory with reference punctuation!


I'd  be tempted to put.


Yours sincerely,



A. N. Other.
Managing Director.

[Jackie G]

I agree with Dusty and the others, I would put a full stop after the title, although it's extremely alien.

Like the rest of us, I too remember 20 + years ago.  I was taught open punctuation and never full, which I don't like at all!

Maybe you could try weaning your boss into a 'new' way of doing things by letting the odd letter slip through with open punctuation and see if he notices . . .!!!!

Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org

[dettu]

Hmm...we do so few paper letters here (in my US office) but I always have a comma after the closing.

Sincerely,
dettu (no full stop)

Letters here typically have no punctuation in the inside address, except for between city and (US) state, unless the street name is abbreviated, which it ought not to be in a formal letter but goodness knows I see all kinds of "mistakes."

My husband always puts a full stop after his signature--he's from Canada.

I learned to type on a manual typewriter in 1982. Is that old enough for you?

[colint]

Thanks, Dusty - me too!  I remember learning to type and everyone in the class having plasters on their weaker (ring and little) fingers, until their strength built up - until then, the finger slips off the key and the key returns, scraping off the skin up the side of the finger!

I wonder if HSE would allow manual typewriters nowadays?!

Thanks for your input everyone.  I know it's rather antiquated to put it all in, but (so's he and) it's what he wants.  Just grateful he doesn't mind my using a word-processor!

(I learnt to type in 1984 by the way - and NEVER looked back.  I REALLY had to stand my ground with the headmaster, yet another boy soon moved into the class once the fourth year began, realising my game: computers were on their way in and they ALL had a QWERTY keyboard.)

[Dusty *]

colint,

I learnt to touch-type 10 years prior to you, and what I remember is having a peice of paper selotaped over the keyboard so your hands were underneath and therefore you could not see the keys, and the teacher clapping to set the rhythm. LOL!

I am intrigued to know whether the youngsters today are taught to touch-type when learning computer skills at school or college, as here at work I am a novelty being able to type without looking!

[itsme_calista]

I must admit that when I took my career break the touch typing went to pot although I notice is is coming back to me a lot more lately.

I used to work in IT training and we never taught anyone to touch type, which I think is criminal!  

I was taught by having coloured stickers on the keys covering the letters.  I've always struggling with my little fingers and to this day don't use them as much as I should.  I broke both of them when I was younger and they've never rest properly so I look like I have arthritis in them and they are extremely weak.

Callie

[Cozwaz]

When I first had typing lessons 24 years ago I used an old big Adler typewriter and everything was punctuated. On occasions we used to have to type in beat to marching music to help with our speeds!!!

Then two years later at secretarial college open punctuation was used and I have used it ever since.

[colint]

To be honest it was something similar when I was at school.  The typewriters had the letters on the keys painted out (not Tipp-Ex (as it was black), but that idea) - although only the letters - we were allowed to look for punctuation marks etc, since they varied depending on which machine you were using (in case you didn't get your usual machine).

I'm sure you're familiar with the routine of copy-typing text across the page, no corrections, start a new line if you make a mistake, keep going until you have three without errors, then every fourth line would need to be verified by the teacher, who would hold paper over your hands as you typed the fourth line again.  If you couldn't do it, you needed to do those lines again!

I went to a secretarial college that was rather sinister - full of doting aunt types in their 50s! All very proper: no-one was allowed to wear jeans and girls were discouraged from wearing trousers: "If you MUST wear trousers, then they should be smart tailored ones, like Colin's"!!!  The girls were taught by one of the make-up houses (from the local department store) how to wear make-up for work AND how to sit like a lady - the other few boys and I spent that lesson in the nearby park!

Anyhow, at that college, a metronone was used and we had to keep up with it!  Over the year, the weight was slid further down the rod to increase its speed.  This apparently encouraged a regular pace (rather than working in fits and starts) and also built speed.

Another of their speed-building methods was to give us one of those alphabetic sentences (like the quick brown fox, but they had several) and we had to type it as many times as possible in five minutes.  Whilst we were doing this, the teacher would be encouraging us as if running a race!  "Come on!  Faster!  You can do it!  Hurry up!  The clock's against you - beat it!"

I did warn you it was rather sinister!

Nevertheless, I think "keyboarding" (as it's now called, to encourage more boys to take up the skill) should be compulsory at college - at least until a viable alternative to the keyboard arrives.  Throughout college, assignments are prefered word-processed and at university it's compulsory.  Why leave students to struggle?

However, one thing that baffles me beyond belief is that we still use a QWERTY keyboard.  This layout was designed to SLOW DOWN the typist and stop the bars jamming on manual/electric machines.  As Carol Vorderman once put it "the computer keyboard is as user-friendly as barbed-wire underpants!"  Why on earth the layout isn't changed for one that encourages speed I really can't imagine.  Those of us already trained on QWERTY keyboards could continue using them, but the newly-trained typists could use the new layout.