Query x 2 from the editor...

[andream]

Morning intrepid readers.  With holidays in both the US and UK on Monday I would imagine that things will be pretty quiet around here, which gives me time to ask you a couple of questions the answers to which, I will carry forth to an appearance on BBCRadio 4 Live this week Thursday (be sure to tune in and watch me put my foot in my mouth and then have a full 45 minutes to chew on it on International radio) *gulp* !

Question 1, We talked about the movie "The Secretary"  briefly before,  now that promos have hit the UK after already running in the US for some time, what do you honestly feel about the art, the look, is it a stereotype or are we all getting far to sensitive? For those of you who haven't seen it, you can have a look at the promosite at ths link:  http://www.secretarythemovie.com/.

Be advised that this is an adult movie, with a rating of R in the US and it's UK equivelant as well.  However there's no nudity in the trailer material except for a very very quick flash though of a couple in bed.... take a few minutes, have a look round, look at the promotion, the art, view the trailer if you're not at work, ask a few colleagues, and then come back here and let me know, because yours is the opinion I am going to take onto the show with me.  Those of you who would like to verbalize your opinion and are among  the "legion of  lurkers"  who read but don't post, can email me directly at editor@deskdemon.com with your thoughts.

Now, there's no question that the art objectifies women,  but I myself seem to recall reeeeally enjoying a certain Diet Coke commercial a few years back which included a burley construction worker type...

So the question remains, does the art have an impact on the profession? Does the tag line " Secretary, Assume the position" followed by a set of shapley legs in black stockings and stilletto heels grasping her  ankles,  cause you to break out in righteous indignation for your professional namesakes, or does it not bother you at all in the context of larger much more pressing issues?

Has political correctness gone too far or not far enough?  IS it offensive or IS it just a photo and people have evolved enough in the real world to understand that the professional secretary is not a plaything?  Do you think the makers of this movie  intend to stereotype all secretaries, or were they really just looking for a profession/situation where there was a building intimacy between employer and employee and unfortunately, secretary happens to be just that, though in reality the intimacy I'M referring to is a bit different than the very adult look the film took.  (even if you haven't seen it, let's be real here, thousands of people will see only this promotional material and never the movie behind it)  If you believe that the intention was to present a stereotype, should the makers be held accountable?

And if you feel that this movie does present a stereotype, does it add insult to injury to know that it won the Sundance Film Festival award?

Sound off to be heard, DeskDemon now reaches over a seventy thousand individual readers in various countries, it's a great chance to get the secretarial view and then carry your views to even a larger audience,, so think a few minutes have a look at the material and let's hear what you think!

All office professionals are encouraged to present their views on this regardless of where you live, we're being asked to present your global input.

Thanks, and find the thread following this one, entitled "US against Them" and read about the second question we've been asked to respond to

Andrea

[jadegrniiz]

I would have to say that I'm not particularly offended by the art marketing the movie in itself...  I think for what the movie is about, it fits.

I haven't seen the movie, but from browsing the website... I would have to think that one thing I fear in regard to stereotyping is that the position of office secretary is open for sexual advances from the boss.

You see it time and time again in movies.... from Lifetime to the big screen. The boss always runs away with his secretary (whether either one of them is married or not).  It makes me ill.





Jadegrniiz
Peer Moderator

[Jackie G]

I agree, I'm fed up of the stereo typing of our professional role in films like this.  I have had a brief look at the website (IQPS was asked to comment, unsure as I write this if we are going to take part in the R4 programme or not) and as I couldn't get too far with it, it didn't exactly entice me to go further.

the 'Secretary, assume the position' IS offensive.  Never mind political correctness, which I personally think has gone way overboard with some things now! - it is NOT something a secretary (or whatever name you want to use!) does or should be subjected to.

As Andrea has intimated in her post, there is a degree of intimacy between a boss and his (or her) PA/Secretary/whatever name you use, but it's not a sexual intimacy.  And if it is, it most certainly shouldn't raise its head in the office, but be kept for out of hours.  I digress.

The professional intimacy between a boss and secretary is an interesting phenomenon.  It takes time to build that intimacy, as in any relationship, but is one that can be very useful.  A friend told me once that a former boss could raise his eyebrows or stare at her in a particular way at meetings - across a crowded room - and she knew exactly what that meant he wanted her to do.  I used to work for someone whose sentences I regularly finished, and would answer questions halfway through being asked the question.  I currently have a client for whom I do the same thing - he's not a long standing client, but is a long standing friend, so reading his thoughts and knowing where his mind is heading is almost second nature.  THAT is what we are good at.

To go back a little, as I said, I think the world of political correctness has gone overboard.  One company I know has forbidden employees from complimenting other employees on the way they look in case it leads to all sorts of claims for sexual harassment.  That is mad!

Look forward to reading other thoughts with interest.

Jackie
www.iqps.org
Peer Moderator

[peana]

I think 'Secretary' looks great and personnally can't wait to see it.  I might be going to see it this evening - if I do I'll try and post my reaction in time for Thursday.  I think the fact it's about a secretary and her boss is relatively immaterial - it could have been any female employee and her male boss.  I don't think you can say it's wrong to have any film about 'master and servant' type relationships at work in case you sterotype one particular profession.  Personnally I found 'Pretty Woman' vile (only watched at SILs insistence) and would be much more inclined to get up in arms about the kind messages portrayed in that film!

All different professions are sterotyped in films (just think of the portrayal nurses receive), but I think we need to accept that it's just the way of the industry.  Going back quite a few years to classic films like 'Bringing up Baby' and 'On the town' - the palentologists are 'nerds'.  I saw 'Splash' over the holiday weekend - again, 40-odd years later, the scientist is a nerd.  I can't really see such things ever changing, and generally I don't think it needs to.  If we are able to recognise a sterotype for what it is, so are others.  

We're adults and can choose what we want to see - it would be a tragedy for censorship / political correctness to be taken to such petty levels.  Just think what films might never get made?  Does 'Taxi Driver' give cabbies a bad rap?  Does 'Guys and Dolls' harm the cause of the Salvation Army?  Does 'The Adjuster' make all insurance loss adjusters look like slimeballs?  Does 'Audition' make all actress homicidal nutters?

Maybe I'm being friviolous now, but sometimes messages are difficult to get across in film - I felt 'American History X' gave a very strong anti-racist message, but was shocked when I left the cinema to see gangs of neo-nazis queuing for late perfomance (I saw it in Zurich).  It is hard to get the balance right, and there will always be someone who is offended, but I still believe cinema should try and push boundaries (even it it is S&M at work).  

To me 'Secretary' looks like a harmless bit of fun - but I'll let you know if my opinion changes once I've seen it!

[blufire21]

I swore that I was never going to watch this, but my DH brought it home the other day.  He though, "Hey, Ellen's a Secretary. She might like it."  In other words I watched it because I didn't want to hurt his feelings.  While I don't agree on the marketing of the movie for PC reasons, after watching the movie I change my mind about the film itself.  

Word of warning to anyone who wishes to see it.  It deals with fetishes and other things that as a society, we tend to keep swept under the carpet.  If you're one of the people who sweeps, don't watch.  Simple as that.  It does also have nudity in the end so heads up.  

This movie deals with issues beyond profesional or sexual.  It actually has deeper themes such as finding oneself and dealing with dangerous personal demons.  I laughed, I cried, I said, "WHAT!?!?!?!?", but overall, I enjoyed the movie.  I agree that it should win awards.  

From the get go, you realize that this movie is not what goes on in the real world, and anyone who thinks it does should be handed a "I'm stupid" sign.  I recomend that anyone who can deal with some very taboo issues (done tastefully), and enjoys a good thinking film to watch it.  

Ellen (I never thought I would say something like that) in TX

[mnaeempk]

I am of the opinion that art imitates life (meaning life impacts art). I would put this film as a not so simple love-story where two complex characters find clicking of their chemistry in each other’s personalities and professions (fortunately or unfortunately being boss and secretary). Somewhere in the backdrop of making this film, some famous sexual fantasies (boss-secretary; teacher-student; doctor-nurse etc) would have been instrumental (director/producer’s thoughts matter) probably due to their intimate relationship though VERY different (not a BIT different) in nature in reality and could have been filmed on other professions too (also pointed out by someone else). Most of the replies to my understanding seem as stereotyping the secretarial profession in the film, but I thought (as read from various reviews of this film on the web), it can’t be so due to the main reason that the heroine role (her boyfriend too) has been shown as psycho - far from normal - and should not be generalized. Regarding award to the film, I think the jury did not think on the lines what we are thinking. The MAIN element of such award adjudication is usually the treatment of the film by the director (which most of the reviewers of this film commended a lot).

mnaeempk
Naeem in Pakistan