What do you do about those picky people?

[rose.winter1980]

Yes, THOSE people!

There is a person in my company (small company, can't avoid her) who is, effectively, junior to me and in another department.  She has little to do with my work, but boy does she stick her fingers in other people's pies.  And not very nicely either.

If I circulate anything (a list of meeting dates, list of Committee dates and so on), you can bet your bottom dollar that I will receive an email - copied to my boss and her boss, naturally - which goes along the lines of "I notice you haven't got ABC on your list of XYZ.  Was that an intentional ommission?"  And my reply goes something like "Not really.  ABC has never been on my list of XYZ, but if your boss and my boss want it to be then that's fine, but my boss (being the BIG BOSS) will discuss with your boss and the Chairman of the company and will no doubt decide in due course". 

There is no point in "tackling" this person.  She will just act "hurt" and "surprised and disappointed" ... she really just meant to point out a teensy-weensy lickle bitsy of information.  She does this to everyone (including Big Boss) but seems particularly fond of pointing out my shortcomings.  I find her manner so irritating that I have applied a rule in Outlook and divert all her emails to her own very special folder.  Childish, but it makes me feel a whole heap better and I can .... Oooops ... delete them by mistake.  What email?  Sorry.  Didn't receive it. 

Am I bad or am I BAD?

Yes, I am very grown up, happily married and have four children.  Why does this bother me so much? 

There.  Rant over.  Thank you for reading.  LOL. 

[Jackie G]

Good plan to divert the emails cos you can then compose yourself (glass bell jar if you know it) before reading them and then nothing in them will affect you one jot.

Childish - possibly, but we are all allowed to be once in a while.

She sounds like a nightmare though.

[gee4]

Some might say she's doing her job!!

[msmarieh]

Gee, although I agree that the other administrative professional likely thinks she is doing her job, I think the real kicker where it crosses the line is her including the two bosses. This is absolutely unnecessary for that type of communication and is probably intended to highlight Winter's flaws.

Winter, I will say that if you read the note without tone, there's nothing wrong with what she has written, so you may be reading more into intent behind the email than she intended.

That said, I would personally have called her out on it the first time it happened with a nicely worded reply (perhaps to all, depending on how mischievous I was feeling) along the lines of, "Thank you so much for letting me know about that oversight. In the future, I don't think it is necessary to copy our bosses when it can easily be coordinated between the two of us. They are far too busy to be burdened with such trivial updates. But I appreciate you letting me know about that omission."

[gee4]

But this is exactly my point Marie, where are the rules of being a PA?!

I posted recently about my CEO's PA not following up with requests SHE makes in MY bosses diary.  The individual Rose is talking about must have felt it was necessary to put these bosses in the loop.

None of us can make a judgement call on a situation we know nothing about, however my advice to Rose is, either ignore your colleague, or hit "reply all" once in a while to her own email and see how she likes it.

[rose.winter1980]

Actually, I don't really take this individual's activities personally - she does this to everybody including our CEO (who happens to be my boss)!

No, she isn't "just doing her job".  Her "job" is to take care of her own sphere of work (which isn't being a PA by the way).  Just because a particular thing hasn't been done before does not mean that procedures cannot change.  It is, however, the way in which one goes about changing things that can make or break a working relationship.  There may be good operational reasons why something has "always been done this way" In a company, everyone is "in it together", but those working relationships have to be built up on effective communication, respect and simple good manners. 

The stupid thing is that this individual contacted me about including information about a part of HER work - something I knew nothing about because she had not bothered to tell either me or her own boss.  So how are we supposed to know this, particularly since her sphere of work is absolutely nothing to do with mine?  But she sends out an email highly critical of my office for something that we cannot be expected to know anything about. 

The root of the trouble, I have been told, lies in this person's background.  She used to be a very high-flying PA in a global organisation and 35 (yes, 35) admins reporting directly to her.  She jetted around the world quite a bit (mostly in Europe).  She also lives quite a high-profile life with her husband.  Her previous employers require their staff to resign from work at a certain age, and so she eventually found her way to my company.  She now has a relatively junior post, but one that is more or less autonomous.  She works independently from most people, except for requests for information and assistance from time to time from various departments.  Her immediate colleagues tell me that she feels very keenly the loss of "power" in her current post as compared with her previous post.  Her former post ended seven years ago, which is quite a long time to carry around that sort of "grief". 

Oh well.  Today is another day and diverted emails stay diverted. LOL.

[gee4]

I sympathise Rose but she does sound like a "one off" case.

As regards her  "sphere of work" and her "highly critical email" of your office, can I suggest you bounce this back to her and ask her for the background information you require.

Maybe once she realises you are not in full receipt of all the necessary info, she will come down a peg or two.

Sometimes these individuals are hired for their experience but are not necessarily right for a particular role.

If she is emailing everyone including your CEO, then she is only letting herself down.

[Cathy S]

In a company, everyone is "in it together", but those working relationships have to be built up on effective communication, respect and simple good manners. 

Isn't that the crux of the matter?

Whatever this individual's baggage brought with them through life and however much she irritates you and/or others ... someone has to make the first move in achieving a balance of respect.

I work currently with someone who immediately put barriers up against me ... at the time I felt the barriers but didn't know why (everyone else did - he had wanted my job!)  Before I found out the reason I made it my business to find ways to overcome the barriers ... in this case I achieved it the day I phoned him and said I was letting him know as a courtesy that I was about to escalate an issue placing undue stress on him and his team to a higher authority.  During that conversation I felt the barriers drop away.  There is a new stress building now owing to a third party but I have been honest with this person, let him know that I was aware of the original barrier and what changed it and suggested it would be a shame to return to that position because a third party is interrupting the clear communication channels we have established.

Rose, however much this person irritates you, please try and find a reason to build a bridge with her and see if you can start the mutual respect growing ...

Good luck

Cathy

[rose.winter1980]

We've already been down that road many, many times.  "We" being colleagues at different levels in the company, including this person's own manager.  Sadly, no one has managed to make any progress so far.   My predecessor in my post had exactly the same problems.  To give her credit, she did not breath a word about this person before she left the company, but we are friends from way back and I did subsequently ask her about this individual.  She, quite properly, said some like "new people always change a group and you needed to make up your own mind/establish your own relationships with colleagues" and then confirmed everything I have experienced with this individual. 

Unfortunately, as so often happens, if a person is of a particular type of character and is convinced that they are right then no amount of bridge-building will breach the gap.  Similarly, if managers are unable (or sometimes, unwilling) to "deal with" a challenging personality, it can affect the whole group. 

Thank you very much for your collective wisdom.  I do appreciate it.

Best wishes,

Rose Winter

[gee4]

Rose, however much this person irritates you, please try and find a reason to build a bridge with her and see if you can start the mutual respect growing ...

Cathy I find it strange that once again you suggest being the peacemaker?  Why should it come to that when this individual is the one causing trouble, not Rose?

Rose - I agree, we cannot move mountains, no matter how hard we try.

[Cathy S]

I suggest it yet again Gee because in my experience it works and works consistently over long working relationships. 

It is very easy to be insular and take the moral high ground when offended, but that leads to an escalation of the situation (and ultimately open warfare). 

Communication is a two way thing and if it isn't working there is fault on both sides - sometimes the fault is only that we haven't found the right way to communicate with another individual ... just because many people have similar issues with the one person doesn't mean the one person is the only one who cannot communicate. 

People struggle to communicate because they are agonisingly shy, or they have a medical condition we don't know about, or they have received negative communication from us previously, or they have a bad experience form life elsewhere or ... or ... or ... there are as many reasons as there are people!
 
If you look at my post I am not suggesting rolling over and playing dead - I am proposing taking the lead in assertive communication.  When I come across difficult communication I try different approaches until one of them works ... even if it only opens a small gap ... and then I work at increasing the communication.

My experience is backed up by the fact that my peers and bosses acknowledge my skill - my communication skills are the reason I have the job I do.  I have been described over the past three weeks in a number of difficult communication situations as being "positive", "constructive", "objective", "a breath of fresh air", "articulate".  For me the ultimate accolade is that some of that was the response from someone I had written to, stating that their leadership style was weak because they do not listen to staff or customers.  This individual has a reputation with everyone for being uncommunicative and dismissive ... we are now working together on overcoming the issues - I am not directly benefiting but as one of the customers I will benefit in the long run.

Cathy

[gee4]

That may work for you Cathy but not every situation is the same and not every individual wants to be approached or is approachable.

We may from time to time encounter difficult individuals but we cannot all be peacemakers and initiate change.

It has nothing to do with taking the moral high ground, but rather getting on with the job we have been hired to do and not taking on the HR negotiating role.

If individuals have trouble communicating then they should attend some kind of training course and get up to speed.

Rose indicated this person "used to be a very high-flying PA in a global organisation and 35 (yes, 35) admins reporting directly to her" so I doubt very much if she has a problem with communication.  She probably has issues with being in a completely different role, but that is her issue.

I too am described as "positive, constructive, objective, a breath of fresh air, articulate" etc etc but I do not do the job of HR and become negotiator in awkward situations with certain individuals.  It is not up to all of us to tackle these kind of situations which is why my advice to Rose is one of tread carefully and obtain the info she requires, or ignore this individual entirely.  Getting involved with these people only causes more trouble.

People have other issues in their lives to be getting on with, rather than taking on the problems of others.

[officepa]

I don't believe that trying to sort out 'problems' when they crop up in offices - as they do all the time - is taking over the HR role.  Problems crop up of various natures during the working week and most, if not all, can be sorted out by the people concerned by talking and listening to each others point of view.  Usually a solution can be found.

Some people do have trouble communicating for various reasons and if a colleague who gets to know them by working alongside them understands why they tick they way they do, can actually be of help to them.   

Who knows why the lady Rose is having problems with acts as she does - possibly her reasons are only known to her or maybe they are not even that. The root of her problem may be deeper than anyone can get to. Perhaps she feels that by being picky she is gaining back some of the control/power she used to have in a previous job.  There is usually one person who acts in this way somewhere within a company but by keeping the lines of communication open by talking rather than emailing (where you cannot guage the emotion easily) positive progress may possibly be made. 

Ignoring her is not what I would do - that is too much like making this into a major issue.

I would personally keep talking to her in a professional way and if she does things you feel are mischief making, raise things as they occur with her but in a calm non accusing manner. She may then realise she is in the wrong and act accordingly from then on or maybe she will carry on as she does now and if that is the case, there is not much else you can do.

At least you have tried all you can and it is no effort really to try and build bridges.

[peaches2160]

I too have found over the years by taking the high road and establishing communication and boundaries does make relationship building and communications in the office productive.  Who knows what is going on in someones life and why they act why they do?  I usually do not take rudeness personally, but have on occassion just not responded, or waited to respond after I have had time to breath.  Unfortunately, it should come from one of the higher ups she is copying on picky emails that they no longer need to be included in this level of "details".