PA and Secretary Community - Deskdemon.com

Some of you might remember my post last December re: my new marketing role. I've been doing this now for 7 weeks, and have been tearing my hear out. It's so frustrating and I knew this was likely to happen... that's why I accepted the role on the condition that junior boss would have time for me and talk to me when needed. "Of course, he would, and his door would always be open for me..."

Even though I was a bit scared of this new role, and how I would perform and manage, I was very motivated, and wanted to get things moving. But I'm constantly running against a brick wall. Documents are not handed back to me, and if I didn't keep an additional record we would have certainly missed a few deadlines. Which we miss anyway, since junior boss just cannot make up his mind. He is so grumpy and doesn't want to talk to anyone. He is grumpy because he's overworked. He's overworked because he can't delegate. He can't delegate because he doesn't trust people to use their initiative and do a good job...

Believe me, I've been trying to talk to him. I've made decisions on my own because I couldn't get an answer out of him. As soon as that was discovered, I got shouted at.

Now, at 37 yrs, 14 yrs work experience (8 yrs in this company), I believe that I'm mature enough and have enough common sense to try and make decisions in the company's best interests.

All day yesterday and today, I've been trying to get him to say yes or no to a £2000 project (which, by the way, has been on his desk since 24.01. and I have been constantly reminding him of it). Today was the deadline, and when I finally could nail him down at 5 pm, I nearly got my head blown off, because I left it too late, and should have discussed this with him long ago!!!!!!! I was so baffled, I didn't know what to say. He snorted a "leave it with me", and ran out of the office, leaving me standing like a little schoolgirl.

All I can say is that I don't want to do that particular job any more. I can't face getting up and going to work tomorrow morning... I'm so fed up with the situation, but I know that running away won't solve the problem.

Thanks for letting me vent. I just had to get this off my chest.

nickless

Sorry it hasn't worked out better for you...  Just keep documenting your communications with him, covering your own back-side as it were, and keep plugging away.  And then perhaps start looking for another position that is more to your liking.  In the meantime, keep venting in here.  We're here for you.

CountriGal
Peer Moderator

People - even the boss - have to understand that deadlines mean just that - they are the last possible deadline.

Would suggest you have a 'false' deadline - ie about a week or so before your real deadline (or whatever works for whatever the project is)

I am currently handling a brochure reprint for a client and so far we have gone to two deadlines for everyone to get the information in.  I send out real tongue in the cheek emails saying things like ... I'm not a mind reader and if you don't tell me, I don't know...

I'm not in a position to move on because this is a client.  But you're an employee with the company for a while and like you say, should be able to make and take decisions in the best interests.

As for today's incident, sit down calmly with bossie and remind him you'd been eminding him since he first had the documentation, and that while you appreciate he is busy, he needs to make time to take the decision on these things, or you will do it - after all, they trusted you enough to give you the responsiblity for their marketing.  If they have that trust, they should also trust that you will make the right decisions about projects - however scary that prospect may be to you.

Stick your ground, grit your teeth and make sure they know that you MEAN what you say.  A few threats carried out and you will hopefully find that they meet deadlines in future... but I would continue with false deadlines no matter how good they get at meeting them.

Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org

Sorry you are having these problems.  I can only agree with the others -  document all your issues and perhaps in the meantime, begin to look for something else.  No point in you stressing out when you did all you could.  I have faced same problems - managers want you to be pro-active and then when you are they either ignore you or dismiss you like a little girl - happens to us all.  

G

Thanks for your replies.

Trying to talk to him is no good; he's been avoiding me all day yesterday, and has still not appeared today. And he's supposed to have a meeting in 30 mins with one of our most important customers. Mobile - switched off. I wonder whether he does all this on purpose... so he can blame someone else for when things go wrong with this customer.

I've also had a phonecall this morning about said project. The lady said bossie had cancelled it, but she would need a few more details. Sorry, couldn't help her there since I didn't know it was cancelled.

How can I relieve a controlfreak and take a chunk of work off his shoulders when he doesn't accept any help?

I'm on the verge of handing all this marketing back to him.



nickless

  As I see it, this situation is about power: control and ownership.   Your boss clearly sees himself as being in charge and doesn't want to delegate.  You have been tasked to do a particular job.  Work is not being done because bossie isn't delegating and can't or won't make decision.  If this situation continues then the reputation of your boss, you and your company will suffer because customers are simply not receiving a service.  And if they don't receive a service, they will go elsewhere.

It depends on what sort of relationship you have, think you have, or could have with your current boss.  

There are a few things you can do: nothing (always an option but not very satisfactory); find another job (possibly also not very satisfactory); tell someone (might not change the situation for the better); confront him.  I would confront him - don't make an appointment, just investigate his diary and go see him.  If he says he is "busy", then you should reply that this is urgent and won't take more than ten minutes.  That should focus both your mind and his.  That's your opportunity to say your piece, nicely but firmly, and to state that you can do X,Y,Z tasks up to a certain point (or entirely), you are not challenging his authority but genuinely wish to help him and progress the work of your department and that you are in this together - as a team ... and could you try it out for a couple of weeks.  If he doesn't agree, then he doesn't deserve your help and your way forward is any of the first three solutions proposed above.

Raindance

Well said Rain.  I would also ask does he actually need a PA - what is his problem??

G

My only added advice is what I stated earlier -- Document, document, document - EVERYTHING.  There may be things going on behind the scenes that you are not aware of and it may very well be that he's setting you up to take a fall for him.  Keep your documentation away from the office, but keep it, so that if anything does blow up and you're in the fall-out (or even the blast) zone, you have something to help protect yourself with.  LIke Raindance said though... take the bull by the horns, catch him in a corner and state your piece, explaining how you can and can't help him in the current situation and how it could be.  If he is really afraid of losing control, assure him that you'll give him weekly updates, or whatever may make him feel more secure.  Hopefully once he's learned how to let go of some of his control, things will get smoother for you.  If he doesn't learn, then you're really in a tough situation and need to look at those 1-3 options.

CountriGal
Peer Moderator

Doing nothing and going with the flow is not really an option because it’s not what I want, and I wouldn’t be happy with it. That’s why I’ve posted the problem in here because I know there are lots of nice colleagues out there who will help and support me.

Confront him – I’d love to. He’s not my direct boss; I’ve so far been working solely for the MD (his dad), and we are a great team. Junior though seems to have problems to trust other people and communicate. Even his PA does not know when he’s in or out, when he has a meeting, or what is scheduled to take place when. He doesn’t want to keep a diary because he can remember all the details in his head, and simply doesn’t want anyone else to know. He has always been working on the principle ‘only a job I’ve done myself is a job well done’. *big sigh*

Working with senior boss is fine (apart from the usual minor hiccups which simply happen from time to time). He’s the best boss I’ve had so far. We seem to be able to read each other’s minds, are genuinely comfortable working together, and I’ve got the authority to make (financial/staff/organisational) decisions which hugely exceed any marketing decisions I’ve made this year. Junior boss is different. He’s very difficult and authoritarian, shouts and swears and bangs doors all the time. You dare and ask him a question, and he either explodes and shouts and screams, or he ignores you and leaves the office - happens to everyone, not just me. So far I’ve managed to stay out of his way, and I wasn’t happy last year when the two bosses asked me to take on the marketing role, i.e. working direct with junior boss. But I felt I wasn’t in a position to turn them down either.

@ Gee: I think having a PA is a status symbol for him. Honestly. So he can say "my PA has messed it up" rather than "I missed the deadline because I couldn't make a decision". I'm glad I'm not his PA. Neither of us would last long...

nickless

Nickless,

I am confused.  If this guy has a PA then what is your working relationship with him as you say you are PA to the MD, who is his father....??

G

MD has overall control about everything that's going on here (3 departments + 1 sister company).

Junior is MD's son, and is running 1 of the 3 departments. He will ultimately take over the whole business.

My role is to assist MD in 2 of 3 depts, sister co and all private affairs, but so far I've stayed clear of 3rd dept, i.e. junior's dept. Additional role now is to do the marketing for the 3rd dept. MD basically also tries to keep out of junior's dept.

Has this made it any clearer?

nickless

Yes - now I get the fuller picture.  

Perhaps by you getting involved with the marketing aspect of junior's department, he is a bit resentful of his father and feels his is interfering, maybe feeling his father doesn't trust him to do a good job.  Perhaps junior would like more control of the whole business sooner rather than later.  Perhaps he is a bit apprehensive about eventually taking over the whole business - maybe he has finally seen what that involves!!

G

That's my thinking exactly. He's probably feeling threatened by your involvment. It seems to me that you're going to have to take some action soon to confront him. If you don't develop a decent working relationship with him, you'll eventually end up on the chopping block if he does gain control of the company (ie-when dad retires).  Good luck!
Tif

I agree with G--and I wonder if his refusal to communicate with you has something to do with his wanting to be independent of his father. You're his father's PA, not his, and he won't want to enable you...he's sort of treating you like his mother, especially the childish ranting and keeping secrets and blaming someone else.

It sounds like he needs therapy or at least some management training! And in the mean time, perhaps the firm ought to look into hiring a part-time marketing professional who can work with Junior and ease the situation. If that person serves the whole company and isn't perceived as part of MD's staff only, maybe Junior will be less resentful?

I get your points.

Junior and I have been working alongside for the last 8 years, acknowledging each other's presence, but not more. We didn't have to, really, unless his dad was away for a few days. Then he would occasionally come to me for advice and guidance as far as MD's depts were concerned; or I had to consult with him and obtain signatures.

Junior did employ an outside marketing company last October. With hindsight, they must have had the same problems as I am experiencing because they gave up in December, and told us they would't work for us any longer.

Well, I'll persevere...

nickless

Nickless

You need to explain clearly to dad what the problems are with junior, and he needs to explain to him what your role is and get him to let go and deal with it.

Sorry I wrote this before reading this page of posts.

You need to make it clear to dad that you can't continue in this role as it is, they asked you to take it on so they must have thought you could do it (and you can, I know you can) but if junior can't or won't let go, he needs to be made to or else you stop doing the job, they find somebody else (external or internal) who is going to last exactly the same time again and then they're at square one - again.  And it'll just keep happening, though for how long before they realise?!!

Lay it on the line.  Junior plays ball or you're leaving the game - now.

Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org

How old is this child?  Sounds as though we haven't got through the teenage angst years.  Dear me.

Yes, that's how I feel quite often: "welcome to the playground". You should think we're all grown-ups and can work together and talk like adults...

Junior is away for 3 days now, which will give me time to work on a marketing campaign I've been thinking about for a while. I've got the wording, just need to throw something together so that people will take the time to read and reply.

nickless

When Junior came back from the trade fair, I had put a couple of sample reply letters on his desk, to be sent as a follow-up to those potential customers who had visited our stand.

I had also given him 3 adverts which could be printed on an A5 folded card and sent out as a mailshot.We've subscribed to a huge database, and are slowly working our way through it. At the beginning of the year, Junior had told me he was planning to use this database to send out a mailshot early this year.

I've just found all 5 items in the bin.

He hasn't even talked to me about any of them.

If he doesn't talk to me, and I don't know what he wants, how can I do a good job???

I'm gutted.

nickless

He obv doesn't see this as a valuable exercise and not only that, but he's taken umbrage at the fact that you have been pro-active and initiated this.  As I said before you cannot win.....sometimes IMO being pro-active means you take away their freedom to think and act for themselves.

Unless he acts you to carry out these jobs, I wouldn't bother, however why don't you call his bluff, dig the items out of the bin and confront him about it (professionally of course).

G

Confront him? NEVER. I'm too much of a coward to do that!

Oh, how I wished they hadn't given me that marketing job in the first place! I've usually been happy here (apart from the odd day), but this year has been dreadful, and I can't face being here any more. By lunchtime, I usually think "I'll take a sick day tomorrow", but then never do it anyway. Wouldn't be fair to the colleagues.

Perhaps I should just take the whole marketing stuff, and hand it back to him.

nickless

You know what, that might be best since you are not really progressing it.  Might do no harm to ask him what it is he really wants and if it's a priority.  Tell him you have other jobs that are more pressing.  Lay it back on him and let me him decide - best way.

G