PA and Secretary Community - Deskdemon.com

Need some advice here...

My boss reports to the CEO as do others at his level.  Frequently myself and other secretaries have to liaise with the CEO's PA on various subjects, including meetings, diaries, site visits as well as other ongoing daily business.

However I find that on occasions when my boss or I require information or an answer to something in particular, the CEO's PA is not always responsive.  Today for example I needed an answer on something which up until yesterday she did not know.  I called her this mornnig only to be told she is on holiday today which leaves my boss in limbo.

I detest this "not knowing" business, and even if I am in the same position myself, I will always follow up with some kind of response even if the answer is, there isn't one.

I also find that if she requests a placeholder to be put in the diary, she never comes back to confirm if the event is taking place which is so frustrating as I have my own boss's diary to manage for other activities.  I therefore end up chasing her only to be told, oh no that's no longer required/happening.

Do any of you have the same problem?  What is the best way to deal with this?  She only has one boss to look after, whereas I have a boss and a team of people to look after.

gee4,

Not sure if I can offer much advice here, as she's the CEO's PA maybe its hierarchy.  I can only suggest that whenever you ask her for information try to put the ball back in her court for a response.

In my early secretarial career, a company I worked for had a PA to the CEO who was very much in to hierarchy when dealing with the other secretaries.  I vowed I would never be like that to my fellow colleagues, and to this day she has stuck in my mind.

I do try and request a response, at various stages.  I usually try and not pester her too much, giving her ample time to respond, regardless if it's a week/few days before the event itself.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's her boss who doesn't know, or his boss even, or if she just doesn't follow things up?

Coincidentally, I had a discussion with my boss the other day with a similar situation.  I tild him I guess I take my job too seriously, because I always know where he is, how to reach him, and always know when he is and is not available.  We are in sync.  If I don't have an answer, I try to find it, or direct the person to the appropriate party to get the answer to their question.  Some EA's are not like that, and it is frustrating to me.  He had to actually call his boss to find out if he would be attending a meeting, because I received an answer of, "well, not sure if he will want to attend at at time, but he is open, so you can send it and see if he accepts".  I accept and decline all meetings for my boss.  I manage his schedule and if there is a conflict, owrk to resolve it.  I am aware of the priorities.  I do not complain when asked to sit in on staff meetings, monthly mgmt team mtgs, etc., as I want to be included and have an understanding of what is going on.  Is that taking my job too seriously?  Hmmmm.  I don't know whether it is laziness on the other EA's part, or a lack of interest.  Maybe they are disenchanted with their role, or just there for a paycheck.  I understand having to play the hierarchy game though.  And it is frustrating to me when my boss has to call his boss to find out if he will attend a meeting that is being scheduled for his knowledge, when his EA will not step up and manage his time. 

Peaches you are someone I could definitely work with.  I wouldn't say you take your job too seriously, I would say you sound like you do your job to the best of your ability and do what is expected of you, and more.

I've had a think about this and I do believe PA's all work differently.  What I also have to remember is, this PA has worked with the same boss for about 15 years, been in the company maybe 20.  Whereas I am new, here just over 18 months and yes I do work very differently and sometimes it can be frustrating when others don't act/re-act how I think they should.

I guess I shall just have to do my job and keep chasing for the answers I need, frustrating though it may be.

Gee,

This is a difficult one.  It's never easy to appreciate the pressures that someone else has in their job, but that does work both ways.

I must say that my own way of working is that all requests for information or replies are dealt with either immediately or diaried into my Outlook calendar for reply by/on a certain date.  Yes, it can leave me feeling as though I am chasing my own tail or trying to juggle too many balls along with the million other tasks and projects I am progressing, but I think that clear and effective communication is key.

And, rule numero uno: ALWAYS make sure you stay on good terms with everyone's gatekeeper (be it EA, PA or Admin) and be very nice to cleaning ladies, security men, delivery men and people who come round to fix things.  That way, you make a heap of friends you never thought you would and can always call in lots of favours.

As a CEO's PA I always respond to requests, even if it's to say I will have to get back once I know/get the info required.

Equally, my emails receive the same speedy response.  After all, it's me asking for bossie...

Thank you Jackie.  That reassures me that not every CEO's PA is the same.

Rose, I don't think it's about "making friends",  I just want some co-operation while doing my daily work.

Gee,

Perhaps "friends" was the wrong word. But, judging by your regular posts in these threads,  I'm sure you are quite excellent at establishing good working relationships and effective lines of communication.  You probably could show the PA you mention a thing or two about those virtues!

Best wishes,

Rose Winter

Thanks Rose.

It just causes me concern (if that's the right word) that these individuals have obtained their jobs by default and not by the usual method, simply because their boss has been promoted over the years or because of a company re-organisation.

Makes me question if they really are CEO PA material.

If they knew what redundancy meant, had to temp or attend interview after interview, they would soon toughen up and become part of the real world.

The organisation has a responsibility for recruiting quality staff and maintaining that quality through appraisal and review mechanisms BUT sometimes these formal structures don't work well ... especially in the PA/Boss relationship because very few organisations actually ever provide support to developing that relationship formally.

... what could work really well is a really high quality peer network - maybe the CEO's PA in your organisation Gee feels isolated from her peers? Isolation makes us behave sometimes in a way that further isolates us.  Perhaps she would benefit from others' skills and knowledge at handling tricky PA/Boss relationships?  It is very easy after all for any of us to look on from outside a relationship, make judgements without understand the workings of that relationship.

I am sure we have all been involved in peer networks where the same few folk get together once a month to whinge about their employer and non present colleagues for an hour ... that does nothing to further professionalism within our ranks.  A good peer network needs to offer something to everyone at every level; needs to be positive and constructive (ie problem solving not nit picking); and needs to be interesting enough that admin/secretarial staff prioritise attending rather than allowing their work to be an excuse ... again

Maybe it is something worth developing?

Cathy

Cathy,

I don't think it's a question of being isolated at all.  As mentioned previously, I feel it's about being in the same company/job for 15 or 20 years.  We become stale, set in our ways and yet there's a big bad world out there.

I have just had some very positive and interesting feedback about myself, so obviously what I do is being noticed and noted.

Over the years whilst I have been made redundant I have taken work where I can and that includes temporary contracts.  You gain experience in doing so and I think that's why I have such a different approach when I go about my daily work, whereas others plod along doing the same thing every day with their eyes shut.  I agree, it can't be motivating.

For me, the reason I posted this thread initially is, there has to be some common sense in what we do each day and if being pro-active is one of those attributes (which I have just been praised for) then some of these PAs need to get their act together.  For me it's a no brainer.

In a company this size, with so many admin staff, I cannot believe there is no admin network to speak of, even from a corporate/division perspective.  Perhaps in the past 20 years it was tried, tested and was found to be unproductive.

Ok here is another prime example of why I posted this topic....

Weeks ago our CEO's PA asked the exec team to hold 2 dates in their diary for a VIP visit ie. this Thur and Fri.  So I put a placeholder in my boss's diary.

Yesterday on behalf of her boss, the PA sends an agenda for the visit, asking everyone to confirm their attendance.  So I read down the agenda and see my boss isn't really required for Thur however there is a Fri slot which relates to the department and our current/future projects.

I replied to the email saying my boss wouldn't attend dinner on Thur evening but since I have rejigged his diary he is available for the slot on Friday.

This morning I have come in to an email from the CEO, cc'd to his PA, asking me which slot on Friday?!  Now is it just me or what?!  Is my boss not required to attend this event at all?  So I replied to the CEO, cc'd his PA and indicated which slot I meant inquiring if my boss was no longer expected to attend.  If that is the case why was I asked to hold 2 days for the event when he was never supposed to attend in the first place?

I would have thought the PA in charge, would have confirmed attendees and made it clear who was to cover what agenda topics, however the slot on Friday had no-one's name or initials beside it yet my boss is the business area director for that department.

I can't figure these people out....

Just as I thought, CEO's PA confirms my boss is not required  ::)

... maybe the agenda should have been presented more clearly - however, had I been sent that I would have mailed or called the PA to ask whether my Boss was to be present since his/her business area was involved; I would not have made the assumption ...

I did Cathy, several times and got no answer until this morning.  I updated my boss's calendar as tentative until I got a reply.

My job seems to be about chasing others at the moment.

Well, at least it is settled, Gee.

Perhaps you should start that admin network you mention.  And have your CV ready for when the CEO's PA hands in her notice.  I'm sure you would be perfect for the job.

20 odd years she has been here, and like most of the other secretaries in that age bracket, straight from school.  I doubt any of them will ever move on.  It's too comfortable and too well-paid!

OMG this place just gets worse!

Some of our company directors and managers are due to attend an annual event in Paris next week.  Once again it is assumed that secretaries have all the info, but of course with me being new, I have no idea how big the event is or what the procedure is as regards booking travel and hotels.

I have just been told this morning by the events manager that she "normally block books accommodatiion" however since hotels wanted payment up front she didn't bother.  I have contacted our travel agent this morning to check availability only to be told a lot of hotels are already full or rates are very expensive.

This is not how I operate, or organise events.  Wouldn't it have been informative for the events team to email secretaries advising them of the event, "it's that time of year again for XXX, here are the dates, please ensure you make the necessary travel arrangements"...

Some individuals have accommodation at airport hotels near the event, while others are in staying in central Paris.

Once again, having organised events all my working life, I am shocked at how badly this has been handled.  Another one chalked up to experience.

Gee

Have you thought about asking your boss what (if any) additional annual/regular events he usually attends etc and put them in your diary to track even before someone drops it on your lap from the compost heap that they call organising?  It will save you time int he long run and you will be able to chase the 'organising PA' for details in plenty of time to do everything you will need to do or, failing that, she/he may come back (preferably in writing) saying they are doing x, y and Z, meaning when they naff it up again you will come out smelling of roses - especially if you manage to rectify the mistake(s) for at least your boss!

Just a suggestion!

Jess

Yes I could if he had time to sit with me and go through the diary.  He's more likely to direct me to one of the other secretaries....

<< sighs >>

 :-\
Shame.  All that time lost and details beggared up because of lack of communication.  I bet there isn't even a master list of what corporate events happen etc!

I feel for you Gee, now and in the hours/days/weeks/months (and please not years!) of your need.

As my dear old mum used to say, patience is a virtue, virtue is a grace, and grace should know better at her age!

I know...you just have to bite your tongue, grit your teeth and get on with it.

Anyway I was very resourceful today.  Managed to get my travellers into a hotel at the airport near the event exhibition centre.  Not sure I am allowed to post the site, but if you are ever stuck for accommodation at the last minute, it's a very useful site.

Gee:

Please send me the link to that site in.  Would love to add it to my tool box.  Thanks.

Gee - if you were in the war I bet you would work in the unscrambling of codes office!!  ;)

...and the funny thing is, I keep smiling through it all!!  :)

Another incident...

I had been asked to put a placeholder in my boss's diary for dinner while away on business in two weeks time.  When I came back from holiday last week my boss was away on business so I informed the CEO's PA I would have an answer today.

After speaking with my boss today on his return and discussing his diary and travel plans for the next 2 weeks, I called into her office to speak about some other queries after lunch, only to be told my boss is no longer required to attend.

Is it me or what?!  Could she not have told me last week when I replied to her email saying I would update her today?  I was here all of last week bar Monday when my boss was here.  If she was able to tell me so quickly then she already knew he wasn't required yet she never bothered saying anything.

And so it goes on... ::)

Now my boss and I are missing emails because HR have spelt his name incorrectly on a meeting invite.  Thankfully someone had the sense to forward it to me.

Seriously, how am I expected to do my job when others can't get it right?

Wonder what the excuse is for this error?!?!

Gee-  I know what you mean.

Gee-  I know what you mean.

Things just get worse... :o

I have just had a PA blatantly lie to me and deny she saw an email I sent on Tuesday asking for a slot in one of her boss's diaries.  I put a read receipt on the email which she read 5 mins after I sent it. 

I chased it up this morning but instead of admitting she had done nothing about it, she has lied and said today was the first she had seen it.

It is just me or what??  Wouldn't you hold your hands up and say, sorry I haven't got round to that yet, or sorry I meant to call you....

I find this behaviour totally unacceptable.  How a person can lie is one thing, but to be caught out is another!

Gee,

I think I would have challenged her over this, and asked if somebody else had access to her emails, just to let her know a read receipt was received.

I let it go mainly because I was concentrating in getting the task complete.  If she did read the email she may have forgotten but it has been filed and noted for future reference.

With the volume of work we are all handling, these things do fall thru the cracks due to priorities.  It happens at times to all of us, but hopefully not alot.  However, when it does happen, I admit it, acknowledged I had not gotten back to it yet, and move on.  Honesty is best.