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General Discussion => Admins 4 Admins => Topic started by: countrigal on January 24, 2002, 06:46:02 pm



Title: Body Art?
Post by: countrigal on January 24, 2002, 06:46:02 pm
Ok, after reading Joan Lloyd's article, and then voting in the poll, I got to thinking...  What would be considered acceptable body art for what type of office?

I ask because I have some of what she listed as body art, but I don't see that it affects my job or my appearance (especially considering I'm conservative with it, which does make a difference).  But is it really such a problem out there?  Have some of you in the hiring positions seen folks coming in with multiple piercings or tattoos?  And how have you handled it?

For me, I have 3 earrings in one ear, and 2 in the other.  I normally wear simple posts in all but the bottom set, and then use those as the match to whatever necklace I'm wearing.  There are times, like today, where I wear only the bottom set, but I don't think that having multiple earrings in my ears has affected my job search/promotibility.  Then last year I pierced my tongue (mid-life crisis is what I'm blaming it on... that or trying to hold onto my youth ) but I purposefully put it far enough back that most people never see it, and whenever I go for an interview or to any important meetings, I put the flat flesh colored "ball" on it so that it's even less noticeable.  By wearing this flat ball when I go for interviews, am I presenting a false image to my potential employers because I don't wear it on a daily basis?

Overall, I don't feel like I look freaky or punked out, or whatever they call the new look but I wanted to get y'alls input on this.  (and those of you who have met me can vouche that I don't look spaced out... I might not be normal, but I'm not totally gone! )  Let's discuss this newest of problems facing the hiring world.

CountriGal
Deskdemon Editorial Board Member


Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: bohorquez on January 24, 2002, 07:28:04 pm
Body art that is tasteful is fine for the office.  Now I misunderstood the poll and I don't know what I was thinking but I assumed it was about wall art.  Urgh!

By wearing the flesh color "ball" to your interviews, to me, doesn't mean that you are presenting a false image to potentional employers rather you are showing them respect.  Respect of what they may not understand.  I hope that makes sense!  

Now if you were interviewing here and showed that you pierced your tongue my bosses would be like "Man, that's cool" nevermind they're like 50+ years old.  They're pretty hip for their age !

---
Bridget
Wife to Eduardo (12/4/99), Mommy to Aaron (10/26/01)


Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: mlm668 on January 24, 2002, 08:10:06 pm
Not to sound critical of your personal choices CG, but I am one person who finds tongue piercing extremely unattractive.  Mainly that is because everytime I see someone with a pierced tongue they are constantly sticking out their tongue to feel the "barbell" against their lips.  It turns my stomach everytime as does seeing pierced eyebrows, lips and noses.  


You did answer one question for me and that was whether or not it could be removed like earrings.  And since you say you have a flat, flesh colored device that you use, that would appear to be a reasonable compromise between work and personal lives.  I did work with a gal once who had a pierced nose.  I had a difficult time having face to face conversations with her because that hoop in her nose was distracting.

As for earrings, I have two holes in each ear.  I normally only wear one earring in each ear just because.  I have no problem with those who pierce their ears 3 or 4 times each as long as their appearance is neat and not "punked".  For the most part, your hair can hide some of them.

And as far as tattoos go, I'm not bothered by those unless they are extremely obvious or obnoxious looking.  I've work with several ladies who had them, and they kept them hidden when at work.  

What a person does on their own time is not my business, but in an office environment I have a very old school attitude for the most part.  I expect my co-workers to dress as professionally as possible.  In my book certain body art like pierced lips or eyebrows and obnoxious tattoos do not belong in the office environment.


Michelle

Edited by mlm668 on 24/01/02 07:14 PM.



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: andream on January 24, 2002, 08:16:07 pm
And have you ever been talking on the phone with someone and heard that annoying click click as the darn thing hits their teeth? Just cause ya can't see it don't mean it ya can't hear the darn things, especially when someone is using a headset, egads!



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: laundryhater on January 24, 2002, 08:30:26 pm
Ditto to Michelle's remarks.

I'd also like to add that yes, you can do whatever you want to your body, but always remember that it's the employer who has final say who gets the job and who does not. If they don't want someone with body art representing their company, they don't have to hire you. It's not discrimination because they are not turning you down because of your race, color, religion or sex.

Employers are allowed to set dress codes. Before or when you interview for a company find out what their dress code is. If it's something you don't want to abide by then don't interview there and don't accept a job there. That is your freedom of choice.

Different professions have different appropriate dress attire. If you are a tattoo artist it is perfectly acceptable to have lots of visible tattoos - it's great advertising. If you're a rodeo clown, wear as much make-up as you wish. If you're a stripper, feel free to show as much cleavage as you want - brings in the customers. But in an office setting these things are not appropriate.



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: chris68 on January 24, 2002, 08:45:25 pm
I'd have to agree that it's inappropriate, but as the pole stated if its not visible as in tattos, I have no problems with that.  There was one of the final three of Survivor III that had tattoos and I really thought that it was too much and I think he was a Marketing Manager or someting, but I guess if he wore a suit it would be hidden, but heavens forbid he should wear a short sleeved shirt and take off the jacket in the summertime, EEKS!  Now that's a bit much.  But if you have one on your back, shoulder, leg, something that can be covered during normal business hours, I guess I would have no problems with that.

As far as the multiple earings, I have no problem, just keep them conservative.  Body piercing, now that bothers me a bit more especially in an office setting and come into work with an eyebrow pierced, EEKS!  But CG your on the right track with the tounge piercing in hiding it.  Seems to be the best approach that it's not so visible during office hours.

Miss conservative, you betcha.  But I'm getting a bit more flexible with that the older I get.

Chris68
Deskdemon Forum Board Staff


Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: goldenearring on January 24, 2002, 08:56:42 pm
CG - rather than comment on what I think about body art, I'm going to offer a fashion tip that has served my interests well and that is that one should never have more than 5 pieces of jewelry on one's person at a time.  Earrings count as 2.  So, you have got 5 earrings, 1 tongue thing, and, I'm guessing, a wedding ring, a watch, and a necklace or two.  Therein lies the issue, I believe.  Personally, although I'm feeling like I'm dangerously close to 50 at this point, I have seen some very attractive young women who managed to express themselves yet find a balance in moderation that is still very necessary in the business world.
[I do have to agree wholeheartedly with the others that checking out the tongue thing against teeth and lips and the incessant clicking of some annoys me.  Think of your grandpa eating a sandwich right next to you . . . LOL  If you are able to avoid making that noise and checking the thing out, then I really don't see where there should be a problem unless you're dealing with ultra-conservative clients on some part of the job.]



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: laundryhater on January 24, 2002, 09:09:17 pm
Now that ya mention it, I too remember the 5 pieces of jewelry rule from business school.



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: goldenearring on January 24, 2002, 09:15:34 pm
Thank you, laundryhater, for making me feel, well, "current," when I sometimes wonder!



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: hightechea on January 24, 2002, 09:51:10 pm
I worked with the tattooed guy (Lex) on survivor and he didn't wear a suit  but he did keep his tattoos covered. Granted he has gotten a few more than when I worked with him but he had quite a few even then.  Lex is the nicest guy you would ever want to meet and the program did not portray that.  They have the editing power.  Robin



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: goldenearring on January 24, 2002, 09:56:34 pm
Oh, I'm glad you posted, hightech.  I still can't believe that I watched at least 10-15 minutes of nearly every episode of Survivor this time, and I kept going back and forth about Lex.  I wanted to believe he was a nice guy.  But, man, they were really brutal with their edits on him.  I would imagine the contestants need to sign waivers to release all claims against the powers-that-be in order even to be on the show.  I have to give all of the contestants credit, regardless of what I thought about them, because had I seen even one African bug, I would have been out of there.  But, on the other hand, to have had the experience like, I think Teresa did, to stay and work on a project with the African tribe would have been an amazing memory.  Thank you for writing in and making me feel better that Lex won the Avalanche!  Although better him than Tom!  LOL  



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: chris68 on January 24, 2002, 10:07:03 pm
hightechtea,

I'm sure he's the nicest guy to meet and talk with, I was just using that as an example. I just think that that many tattoes is a bit extreme for an office setting.  He may be in an office that isn't as conservative with it, and hey I am all for it, but, being from a conservative background, it just seemed like a bit much.

My .02 cents.

Chris68
Deskdemon Forum Board Staff


Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: goldenearring on January 24, 2002, 10:10:50 pm
Oh, geez, did I say Teresa?  Not Teresa, the brunette, the beautiful one, not the "Tina-lookalike."  Can't remember her name.  



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: goldenearring on January 24, 2002, 10:11:47 pm
I am losin' it.  I liked Teresa, and she's not even the one I was thinking of . . . the blond . . . why do I care?!?! . . . who came in second.  Anyway, what the heck was the point of all of this in the first place?



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: hightechea on January 24, 2002, 10:14:39 pm
Do you mean the one that made it to the finals with Ethan?That was the blonde grandmother, Kim.  Theresa was the brunette.  Her nickname was T-Bird.   Guess you can tell I am a Survivor nut.  I have watched every eposide from each one.  Robin



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: chris68 on January 24, 2002, 10:17:42 pm
Yep your right hightechtea.  I could picture them but couldn't remember the names even, and it wasn't that long ago.  I'm with you on the survivor nut part.  I can't believe we are into survivor iv already!  I can hardly wait for the next one to start.  Sometime next month I believe.  BTW, have you seen Rudy's new show?  He was part of survivor I.  Its some sort of Military survivor written by the same people.  Kinda interesting, but I'll have to watch again to see if I can follow it. A bit off the topic but hey, what ya gonna do.


Chris68
Deskdemon Forum Board Staff


Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: hightechea on January 24, 2002, 10:19:24 pm
Chris~I know you were using him as an example, just wanted to add my .02 about personally knowing him.  Plus it is kind of fun being able to tell people I know and worked with one of the Survivors.  Robin



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: goldenearring on January 24, 2002, 10:20:09 pm
Thanks, Robin.  I'm thinking of Jessica!  Finally remembered her name after you reminded me of the others'.   If I had worked with any of the contestants, I would have watched every episode, too.  I mainly tune in, because when I can I like to watch CSI afterward.  Unfortunately, that is starting to get a wee bit boring when you know that you're going to see 2-3 dead bodies each episode.  Kim was nice, but I thought it would have been just way too much if she had won since she was so much like Tina.  What do you think about the theories by some that the entire show is rigged and that they make sure they have a politically-correct mix of people?  And, speaking of p-c, why weren't there any American Indians, Arab-American or Asian/Pacific people on there?  LOL  Soon, they'll have to start with 150 contestants to make everyone happy.



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: countrigal on January 24, 2002, 10:47:07 pm
Just an FYI regarding my tongue ring...  Since most of my office mates are unaware that I have it (and yes, when they think you have one they do ask) I feel secure in saying that you can't hear it click my teeth when I talk (Andrea, did you hear it?) and I don't toy with it unless I'm all alone (because I don't care to see my own tongue, why put someone else thru the agony of seeing it?).  In fact, I have worked in this office almost a year and just last week my closest working companion noticed something on my tongue and asked me if I had it pierced.  The reason it was noticeable?  Over the weekend I put in a green and black ball (glows under a black light) so that when hubby and I went to the club it was noticeable.  I forgot to change it back, and unlike the reddish one, this is more "visible" because of the color contrast.  She still wasn't sure she saw anything, but had to ask.  (btw... the tongue is a muscle and if the ring is removed for anywhere from a couple of hours to 48 hours, the hole will be closed and will appear like it was never there, one of the reasons I wasn't too worried about getting it pierced.  When I'm tired of it, or outgrow it, I can remove it and it will be like it never was there.)

As for 5 pieces of jewlry.... man do I have that shot.  I wear 2 rings on my right hand (black hills silver normally, very simple pieces), my wedding ring and diamond on my left, always a necklace of some sort, and then anywhere from no earrings to 2 pairs and an odd-ball (up to 5 seperate pieces there alone).  When I wear my hair up, I tend to wear only one pair of earrings, but when it's down I tend to put them all or most in.  I just don't feel "dressed to the shoes" if I don't have a necklace on, and all my rings, plus my watch.  Guess I've blown that from the start.  But so far I don't think it's hurt my career.  I've progressed faster in my career than others around me and I believe it's because even though I have more jewelry on than y'all state, it's understated (I don't wear big chunky earrings, gaudy rings, or bulky necklaces) and completes an overall professional image.  (and the tongue ring stays out of sight!)

So back to my original question...How do we, working professionals, hire or not hire folks because of body art?  Are we to say that all these kids who are out searching for who they are will be unemployable in mainstream jobs when they turn 18 (or whatever) and head out into the world?  If so, as parents should we prohibit our kids from any piercings that are somewhat permanent?  (btw... the tongue is a muscle and if the ring is removed for anywhere from a couple of hours to 48 hours, the hole will be closed and will appear like it was never there.)  And is it a misrepresentation of yourself to "hide" body art (like I do with my flat, flesh-tone ball) when interviewing and going to meetings, when that's not what is worn/used/done normally?

CountriGal
Deskdemon Editorial Board Member


Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: mlm668 on January 24, 2002, 11:42:46 pm
I don't believe it is misrepresenting yourself.  You are respecting the views of others (knowing that those views may not take your piercing very well).

As for the 5 pieces of jewelry - I'm shot on that one two.   Two rings on my left hand, one on my right and two earrings, a watch and occasionally a necklace and my other two earrings.  I've seen woman who overdo it and some who wear no jewelry at all.  I think that with jewelry its a matter of "presentation".  

I do believe that parents need to restrict their children a little more when it comes to this issue.  I have set limits for my children regarding their appearance their entire lives.  I believe that they can "find themselves" no matter how strict or loose I am with them.  If I don't set limits now, how will they learn to set them for themselves.

None of this was meant as a personal attack on you CG.  We all have opinions and preferences and what we consider proper.  If you are still succeeding, then that is all that is important.  If I was in a position to hire "youngsters" I would hope I could still give those who are pierced a chance, but I would also have to lay down the law about their appearance in the office.  If they can't abide by that, then they wouldn't be the right one for the job.  

Michelle


Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: goldenearring on January 25, 2002, 12:47:18 am
Guess I'm not the only one who missed the question at hand, CG.  Looked like you were asking for our critique of your plethora of personal expression-wares!  LOL  Now that you have that, here's my answer to the question you thought you had asked.  I think it's important to inform kids about ALL the possible choices open to them, state the potential consequences, and then get the heck out of their way except to guide them.  Face it, we all did what we wanted to.  Some of them will learn things the hard way, and some of them will make great choices because they "get it" right from the get go.  Some will screw up all the rules, but they'll be so doggoned brilliant, that it wouldn't matter if they looked like Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtin as Coneheads, plus had body art!  So, my answer is:  it just depends.



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: countrigal on January 25, 2002, 02:59:19 pm
MLM, and all others, don't worry... I didn't take anything personally.  Heck, I brought up the discussion.  I just figured if I didn't say anything of my personal style, then others would wonder and ask so why not beat them to the punch?  And anyway, I learned something I had never heard before -- 5 pieces of jewelry is the standard acceptable amount, with allowances made depending on presentation.  And learning is why I'm here -- to learn from all of you out there.

It will be interesting to see how opinions and preferences change as the world continues... where once a woman had to wear a dress/skirt to be professional she can now wear slacks.  Where once jewelry of any kind (minus a wedding band and watch) was frowned on for men, they now can wear other pieces if done in good taste.  Where once only 1 pair of earrings was professional, now we have workers wearing 2 pairs and looking professional.  How will the eyebrow-ring and other body art move into the mainstream and be considered "tasteful" and "professional"?  I can see it happening at some point down the road, but how we're going to get there will be interesting to see and just goes to show that the world we live in keeps evolving.

CountriGal
Deskdemon Editorial Board Member


Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: akara on January 25, 2002, 03:24:31 pm
Hi

I guess i agree with most of what's been said here.  You want to adorn your body with tattoos, or put holes in various parts of it, that's up to you - your body, you decide what you want to do with it.

However, you should also respect the rules of your business, and if boss thinks it's inappropriate to the company image, you've got to abide by that.  I believe in free expression, but I also acknowledge that we've all got to follow rules, whether we like it or not - especially to get on well in the business world.

Personally I don't even have pierced ears - but that's mostly because I can't stand pain in any form!! (I made a similar comment in the 'body hair' thread).  Pierced tongue - that sounds so painful!!  Biting my tongue inadvertently is agony enough - and I've done that enough times.  But to have someone ram a sharp instrument all the way through it - yikes!!!  And there must be blood - the sight of my own blood makes me keel over!!

So on balance I prefer to remain unpierced, thank you very much!

Akara



Title: Re: Body Art?
Post by: laundryhater on January 25, 2002, 04:10:49 pm
CountriGal:

Sounds like you are doing things right. Your jewelry, even though it is more than five pieces, still sounds like it is in good taste (not chunky or gawdy). The tounge ring sounds like it's in good taste too since your friend didn't even notice it until now (after a year).

Basically, if you have never been approached by your boss or had negative comments said about you from customers or fellow employees you are doing it right.

I hope the nose ring and eyebrow ring never become acceptable in the office attire. It just hurts me to even look at those things.