Title: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: radaro on September 02, 2005, 05:26:27 pm
Gas prices in Ottawa have reached as high as $1.34/litre yet I don't see anyone doing anything about. Everyone likes to b*tch and moan about the price of gas but no one wants to conserve.
What about:
- giving up the SUV? Cars and vans have different consumption standards that SUVs and light trucks. If you really must have an SUV in the city (and I can't imagine why other than image) what about only using it only when you really have to? like when you have 4 or more passengers.
- carpooling? I've been able to walk to work this summer and I've noticed that 99% of vehicles on the road have only a driver in them. I just saw this book on Amazon (I haven't read it) but the title to be a play on a WWII poster "When You Ride Alone You Ride with Bin Laden" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1597775134/103-2686680-4045401 Also, carpooling would greatly reduce the number of cars, thereby reducing traffic problems
- walking or taking public transportation? Not many people have the option of walking to work but what about walking to the store?
- modifying driving habits? Most people seem to accelerate quickly at the green and then drive like mad until they rapidly apply the brakes at the red. If you coast to the stop light (this takes some advance planning
) you can save gas. Also, the faster you drive, the more rapid your gas consumption. People should try to keep to the speed limit.
It's all basic economics: supply and demand. The demand is getting higher and higher and the supply is dropping so price will continue to rise. If the demand decrease and the supply stayed the same, the price would drop and we just might save our environment, too.
What legacy do you want to leave your kids?
What about:
- giving up the SUV? Cars and vans have different consumption standards that SUVs and light trucks. If you really must have an SUV in the city (and I can't imagine why other than image) what about only using it only when you really have to? like when you have 4 or more passengers.
- carpooling? I've been able to walk to work this summer and I've noticed that 99% of vehicles on the road have only a driver in them. I just saw this book on Amazon (I haven't read it) but the title to be a play on a WWII poster "When You Ride Alone You Ride with Bin Laden" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1597775134/103-2686680-4045401 Also, carpooling would greatly reduce the number of cars, thereby reducing traffic problems
- walking or taking public transportation? Not many people have the option of walking to work but what about walking to the store?
- modifying driving habits? Most people seem to accelerate quickly at the green and then drive like mad until they rapidly apply the brakes at the red. If you coast to the stop light (this takes some advance planning
) you can save gas. Also, the faster you drive, the more rapid your gas consumption. People should try to keep to the speed limit.It's all basic economics: supply and demand. The demand is getting higher and higher and the supply is dropping so price will continue to rise. If the demand decrease and the supply stayed the same, the price would drop and we just might save our environment, too.
What legacy do you want to leave your kids?
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: diamondlady on September 02, 2005, 06:18:53 pm
Radaro, I understand your frustration, but I KNOW it will get worse before things get better. I'm not going to b*tch about gas prices when theres folks in other locations with tougher situations than we have.
I agree with you to a point, and people should just be patient and understanding with the price of gasoline. We knew this was a possiblity last year. And, with Labor Day upon us, it's no big surprise that it is this high. I guess I'm a bit frazzled by why so many people are upset over the price of it. I'm not condoning it in any way shape or form. I've seen it as high as 3.19/gallon this morning on my commute in, and while it's awful, folks were complaining 2 years ago when it was 1.62/gallon. Now, we would all be in line to get it at that price thinking it was a bargain.
Just be patient. I KNOW it sucks, but if we all conserve a bit and try not to go too crazy with driving, it will all balance out in the end. Right now it's really bad, but with the refineries in the gulf down, I expected that and with the end of Summer, I'm really not surprised that its 3.00/gallon.
What to do, I'm not sure...but I'm not at all surprised.
And color me crazy, but can you traslate that into US dollars for us so we can compare pricing?
Diamondlady
Peer Moderator
I agree with you to a point, and people should just be patient and understanding with the price of gasoline. We knew this was a possiblity last year. And, with Labor Day upon us, it's no big surprise that it is this high. I guess I'm a bit frazzled by why so many people are upset over the price of it. I'm not condoning it in any way shape or form. I've seen it as high as 3.19/gallon this morning on my commute in, and while it's awful, folks were complaining 2 years ago when it was 1.62/gallon. Now, we would all be in line to get it at that price thinking it was a bargain.
Just be patient. I KNOW it sucks, but if we all conserve a bit and try not to go too crazy with driving, it will all balance out in the end. Right now it's really bad, but with the refineries in the gulf down, I expected that and with the end of Summer, I'm really not surprised that its 3.00/gallon.
What to do, I'm not sure...but I'm not at all surprised.
And color me crazy, but can you traslate that into US dollars for us so we can compare pricing?
Diamondlady
Peer Moderator
Edited by diamondlady on 02/09/05 06:19 PM.
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: countrigal on September 02, 2005, 06:24:13 pm
I must say that I like what you say, but can't see it working well where I live. Though my husband and I will start trying to drive to work together (as we only work 10 blocks from each other) in order to conserve gas. I drive a minivan due to family size and necessity, and my in-laws drive an SUV for necesity - needed space for 2 wheelchairs and ability of passengers to get in and out more easily due to limited mobility. My husband only drives our truck when he needs to haul things, either on the trailer or in the bed of the truck, otherwise he drives the car.
As for public transportation or walking... there is virtually no public transportation where I live, and that includes the entire state, and what is available is unreliable. And walking is not an option since we live in a sprawling suburban area... and it's a minimum 15 minute drive (with no traffic and no lights slowing you down) to the nearest store of any kind. If I lived within walking distance of work, you can bet I'd be doing so. And if I could walk to the grocery store, I'd do that too. I did a lot of that while I lived overseas, only driving when I had to, and loved the freedom of walking and getting exercise while completing necessary tasks.
I've looked and looked into carpooling from my area, but no one lives in my area that also works in my company. And there really are no other companies close to us that I could look to for carpooling partners either. And with kids, that adds a kink to carpooling. (my company is in a residential area, with the only close 'business' being the Middle School next door.)
So while it sounds ideal to say that everyone needs to conserve, it's not always as easy as it sounds. Our cities have gotten too large so that folks live in rural-suburban areas which require long commutes to work and/or shopping, and for a number of folks, it's too late for them to modify the vehicle that they drive as they only have one and it's the SUV or whatever, and in a lot of areas mass transit is minimal to non-existent. What we can do is try to drive smarter, drive more efficiently (something I've already started doing, which has increased my MPG's), and when possible, purchase vehicles which will allow for more fuel conservation. I'm really interested in the alternative fuel sources that are being developed... would love to be able to buy a vehicle that runs on diesel and have it burn on oil from soybeans or other reproducable sources, and the knowlege is already there, we just have to support the building of plants for production and refinement, and get the farmers to start planting for those reasons.
CountriGal
Peer Moderator
As for public transportation or walking... there is virtually no public transportation where I live, and that includes the entire state, and what is available is unreliable. And walking is not an option since we live in a sprawling suburban area... and it's a minimum 15 minute drive (with no traffic and no lights slowing you down) to the nearest store of any kind. If I lived within walking distance of work, you can bet I'd be doing so. And if I could walk to the grocery store, I'd do that too. I did a lot of that while I lived overseas, only driving when I had to, and loved the freedom of walking and getting exercise while completing necessary tasks.
I've looked and looked into carpooling from my area, but no one lives in my area that also works in my company. And there really are no other companies close to us that I could look to for carpooling partners either. And with kids, that adds a kink to carpooling. (my company is in a residential area, with the only close 'business' being the Middle School next door.)
So while it sounds ideal to say that everyone needs to conserve, it's not always as easy as it sounds. Our cities have gotten too large so that folks live in rural-suburban areas which require long commutes to work and/or shopping, and for a number of folks, it's too late for them to modify the vehicle that they drive as they only have one and it's the SUV or whatever, and in a lot of areas mass transit is minimal to non-existent. What we can do is try to drive smarter, drive more efficiently (something I've already started doing, which has increased my MPG's), and when possible, purchase vehicles which will allow for more fuel conservation. I'm really interested in the alternative fuel sources that are being developed... would love to be able to buy a vehicle that runs on diesel and have it burn on oil from soybeans or other reproducable sources, and the knowlege is already there, we just have to support the building of plants for production and refinement, and get the farmers to start planting for those reasons.
CountriGal
Peer Moderator
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: countrigal on September 02, 2005, 06:43:13 pm
Conversion:
$1.00 Canadian = $0.841186 US
1 Liter = 0.264 Gallons (US)
Therefore $1.34/Liter (Canadian) would be the equivalent of $4.26/Gal (US).
And the US has been lucky in our gas prices for years. While other countries are paying more per gallon, we've been paying little or nothing in comparison, and complaining about that then. We, as a country, have been using and using with little or no thought put to what would happen if/when... so now we're being hit with those issues and all folks are doing is complaining. Me, I just pull up to the pump and pay, thankful that it's not what it could be and what it probably will be at some point before it starts to get better. And I think the US has seen the last of $1.XX / gal gas. Now that it's gotten higher, and folks are still paying, I expect gas stations to keep higher prices. It may drop back to $2.1X per gallon down the road, but not for a while. I'm lucky that it's still only $2.59 where I live, but who knows for how much longer that'll be.
CountriGal
Peer Moderator
$1.00 Canadian = $0.841186 US
1 Liter = 0.264 Gallons (US)
Therefore $1.34/Liter (Canadian) would be the equivalent of $4.26/Gal (US).
And the US has been lucky in our gas prices for years. While other countries are paying more per gallon, we've been paying little or nothing in comparison, and complaining about that then. We, as a country, have been using and using with little or no thought put to what would happen if/when... so now we're being hit with those issues and all folks are doing is complaining. Me, I just pull up to the pump and pay, thankful that it's not what it could be and what it probably will be at some point before it starts to get better. And I think the US has seen the last of $1.XX / gal gas. Now that it's gotten higher, and folks are still paying, I expect gas stations to keep higher prices. It may drop back to $2.1X per gallon down the road, but not for a while. I'm lucky that it's still only $2.59 where I live, but who knows for how much longer that'll be.
CountriGal
Peer Moderator
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: donnap99 on September 02, 2005, 06:50:52 pm
I've been working on and off all day on a spreadsheet to determine at what price gas will have to be that it will be worth it for me to start using mass transportation (whcih will take generally 1.5 times as long and will be a major pain on evenings I have classes). I will do it if I have to, but it's definitely not my first choice!
DonnaP99
DonnaP99
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: kjorg on September 02, 2005, 07:05:33 pm
Gas prices are $3.25/gallon here for premium. I usually buy the plus, which is usually $.10/gallon cheaper. Still makes it $45 to fill up my car. Unfortunately, I commute 25 miles one way to work. Have to get there somehow. Not sure if there's a bus line that connects the two cities. Will check into that. My husband drives all over the place for his job. self-employed. with a truck. I think it's $60-$70 to fill up his truck. It's definitely affecting us.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if we ever see anything below $2.50 again. Even before the hurricane crisis, they were talking about the production in Iraq, Saudi, etc .... being down and probably wouldn't reach their high production again. It's not a never ending supply. I wish there were more alternatives to choose from. We here in the U.S. are slow in accepting anything else.
-k
Frankly, I'd be surprised if we ever see anything below $2.50 again. Even before the hurricane crisis, they were talking about the production in Iraq, Saudi, etc .... being down and probably wouldn't reach their high production again. It's not a never ending supply. I wish there were more alternatives to choose from. We here in the U.S. are slow in accepting anything else.
-k
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: geminigirl on September 05, 2005, 10:16:39 am
Petrol prices in the UK are currently at £4.20 per gallon / 91pence per litre - I think that works out around $6 - $7 or so a gallon? I really couldn't imagine giving up my car for anything ... I drive to work, but do try and walk to the supermarket or family visits of a weekend.
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: gee4 on September 05, 2005, 10:38:02 am
I walk to work so only use the car when I need shopping or visiting friends. However I just wonder how much more it will increase .... at this rate we'll be giving up the luxury of having a car!
G
G
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: ecogirl on September 05, 2005, 01:27:43 pm
When I lived in the Highlands almost 2 years ago, we were already paying around 90p per litre. I hate to think how much it is costing up there now. And you don't have any choice. The supermarket was 40 miles away, the bus only passed every three days and the post bus would take you to the next village to the village store but it didn't come all the way back! From this point of view, I'm glad to be back in civilsation.
caroleanne
caroleanne
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: Jackie G on September 05, 2005, 10:13:10 pm
Am watching the news as I check DD and I've just seen a pump price in the south at £1.03.9/litre - yikes!
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: peana on September 06, 2005, 05:17:04 pm
It is a catch 22 situation - without good public transport most people have no option but to rely on their car. I'm lucky living in London - most of my usual buses run every 8 mins during the day, and even run all night at 20 min intervals!! We sold our car over five years ago, hiring one when it's unavoidable. However, I tend to rely on buses and trains. You can catch a train to just about anywhere in the UK from London with only 1 or 2 changes so we really are spoilt. At a recent wedding in Wiltshire hubby and I beat the car driver's journeys by hours.
Unfortunately so few people are in this position - it makes me really angry how bad public transport is in the rest of the country. It's impossible to get people out of cars if there is no realistic alternative.
Unfortunately so few people are in this position - it makes me really angry how bad public transport is in the rest of the country. It's impossible to get people out of cars if there is no realistic alternative.
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: tiffanyctd on September 07, 2005, 05:48:12 pm
Same here! There was one time that I tried the public transportation around here because my car was in the shop. What was normally a 10 minute drive to work (through town, during rush hour), took about 2 1/2 hours!!! Now, I'm closer to work, but there is NO public transportation on this side of town. I'd love to walk or bike, but my family freaks out any time I suggest it, because there are no sidewalks and I would have to walk for a mile on a VERY busy street. ARRGGHHH!
Thankfully, my car gets fairly decent gas mileage, so a tank of gas lasts me 2-3 weeks.
Thankfully, my car gets fairly decent gas mileage, so a tank of gas lasts me 2-3 weeks.
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: whitesatin on September 07, 2005, 06:16:11 pm
My husband just started a new job in Sacramento which is approximately an hour and a half to two hours from where we live. His brother and family live about 15 minutes from his new job, so he is staying with them to shorten the commute and save gasoline. He is coming home once during the work week and coming home on the weekend. That is a HUGE sacrifice for us. We miss each other very much. He is coming home tonight. Yeah! 
WhiteSatin
WhiteSatin Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: ecogirl on September 08, 2005, 07:39:59 am
Jackie, it's not just down south the petrol prices are over £1. Just passed one in Edinburgh with unleaded at 102.9p.
caroleanne
caroleanne
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: Jackie G on September 08, 2005, 09:52:44 am
Carole
I filled up the other day at 94.9 and that hurt me! I think £1+ is going to really hurt. Trouble is my boyfriend and I take turns in driving to see each other, so we use a lot of gas!
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
I filled up the other day at 94.9 and that hurt me! I think £1+ is going to really hurt. Trouble is my boyfriend and I take turns in driving to see each other, so we use a lot of gas!
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: diamondlady on September 08, 2005, 06:12:15 pm
Ours went down from a peak at 3.49/gallon before labor day down to 3.29 and 3.19 per gallon come Tuesday after Labor Day. Talk about price gouging for the Labor Day holiday, as if it wasn't bad enough with the Hurricane in there, they certainly took advantage of the situation. That's not right!
Diamondlady
Peer Moderator
Diamondlady
Peer Moderator
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: tiffanyctd on September 09, 2005, 02:36:07 pm
Never in a million years would I have thought I would cheer to be able to pay "only" $2.65 per gallon, but boy, was I celebrating last night when I filled up!
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: countrigal on September 09, 2005, 04:25:04 pm
So far I've been lucky and not had to pay more than $2.78 /gal for gas. It has been as high as $2.99/gal for regular unleaded (and goes up from there for the 'better' gas), but one of the gas stations on my way home had it for $2.56 up till they ran out. Now, for the past week, the gas at the other local stations on my way home (which are the cheapest in the area) have gas for $2.78/gal, if they still have gas. A number of gas stations have run out of gas, and have been out for 3-5 days now, with no assurances of when they'll get their next load in.
Did many of you see the made-for-tv-movie "Oil Storm"? I think a lot of the panic with gas prices and such is because of the coincidence of what the context was of that movie and the reality of Hurricane Katrina. And because we get our gas from the fields in Mississippi and Louisianna, here in the south, specifically AL, we are running out of gas and hoping to be able to get some from some of the other gas pipelines (ie: TX) before it becomes critical. Heaven knows I'm not letting my van fall below 3/4 of a tank of gas, a) because it's cheaper to only put 1/4 tank of gas in (approx $20.00 a fill-up) but also b) because who knows when we'll be short on gas at all the stations and I'll need to be able to not fill up for a while. Oh, and some of our gas stations are limiting the amount of gas you can buy at one time. The worst is the gas station on the military base. There, you're limited to $15.00 of gas at any one time, because they were the first ones to run out and have been getting gas from other military installations (those shipments redirected to us here) in order to continue to be able to offer any at all. So that's yet another reason to keep my gas tank as full as possible.
Here's hoping that things start improving in the next couple of weeks, else I may just have to walk... Wonder how long it'd take to walk from home to the office, if it's a 30 minute car ride... Hmmm....
CountriGal
Peer Moderator
Did many of you see the made-for-tv-movie "Oil Storm"? I think a lot of the panic with gas prices and such is because of the coincidence of what the context was of that movie and the reality of Hurricane Katrina. And because we get our gas from the fields in Mississippi and Louisianna, here in the south, specifically AL, we are running out of gas and hoping to be able to get some from some of the other gas pipelines (ie: TX) before it becomes critical. Heaven knows I'm not letting my van fall below 3/4 of a tank of gas, a) because it's cheaper to only put 1/4 tank of gas in (approx $20.00 a fill-up) but also b) because who knows when we'll be short on gas at all the stations and I'll need to be able to not fill up for a while. Oh, and some of our gas stations are limiting the amount of gas you can buy at one time. The worst is the gas station on the military base. There, you're limited to $15.00 of gas at any one time, because they were the first ones to run out and have been getting gas from other military installations (those shipments redirected to us here) in order to continue to be able to offer any at all. So that's yet another reason to keep my gas tank as full as possible.
Here's hoping that things start improving in the next couple of weeks, else I may just have to walk... Wonder how long it'd take to walk from home to the office, if it's a 30 minute car ride... Hmmm....
CountriGal
Peer Moderator
Edited by countrigal on 09/09/05 04:28 PM.
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: smallfry on September 13, 2005, 10:05:55 am
I think its really sad and unnerving that - over the years loads of inventors have come up with many substitutes for petrol and gas, for transport and for other areas in which we over consume polutive and limited natural resources; but EVERY TIME THEY DO, the big oil companies have bought up the idea, thus offering consumers no alternative but to buy their oil and gas... And now that its comming to crunch point, they may well sell those ideas back to us at a massively increased price.
My family lives right next to this eco friendly selfsustainable housing complex called the Hockerton Housing Project, so i know quite a bit about stuff like this. Check out their web site to see how were all going to be living in years to come...
..Electric cars, bikes and wind turbines ahoy!!!
My family lives right next to this eco friendly selfsustainable housing complex called the Hockerton Housing Project, so i know quite a bit about stuff like this. Check out their web site to see how were all going to be living in years to come...
..Electric cars, bikes and wind turbines ahoy!!!
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: dettu on September 14, 2005, 09:30:04 pm
I would like to be able to walk or bike everywhere. I read yesterday that most car trips are under 6 miles--"within easy walking or biking distance." Well, yes, if you have all the time in the world, but a six-mile walk isn't a quick thing, and if it's six miles EACH WAY? A 12-mile RT bicycle trip, yes, but carrying three bags of groceries? How practical is it?
I have a supermarket within a 20-minute walk. It's overpriced and has bad produce, but I do walk down there if I run out of something during the week. There's a drugstore in the same complex, and I walk there. Our nearest library branch is 20 minutes the other way; I walk there once a week, often with my son. But if I need to go to the drugstore and the library in the same evening? That's 80 minutes of walking, not counting the time spent inside each place--I don't know about everyone else here, but I just don't have 80 extra minutes most days. I'd love to live somewhere less inconvenient!
Five miles to work, five miles the other direction to my son's school--no way could any of us walk or even ride a bike through the busy, dangerous traffic on multi-lane highways to get to those destinations. And think of it--we rejected moving to the San Diego area because our commutes would have been too long!
I live in the northern US, and between November and March, any kind of walking is iffy. People don't shovel their sidewalks, or they do but melting and refreezing makes walking a heck of a hazard.
This bothers me. I want to do better, but I can't...
I have a supermarket within a 20-minute walk. It's overpriced and has bad produce, but I do walk down there if I run out of something during the week. There's a drugstore in the same complex, and I walk there. Our nearest library branch is 20 minutes the other way; I walk there once a week, often with my son. But if I need to go to the drugstore and the library in the same evening? That's 80 minutes of walking, not counting the time spent inside each place--I don't know about everyone else here, but I just don't have 80 extra minutes most days. I'd love to live somewhere less inconvenient!
Five miles to work, five miles the other direction to my son's school--no way could any of us walk or even ride a bike through the busy, dangerous traffic on multi-lane highways to get to those destinations. And think of it--we rejected moving to the San Diego area because our commutes would have been too long!
I live in the northern US, and between November and March, any kind of walking is iffy. People don't shovel their sidewalks, or they do but melting and refreezing makes walking a heck of a hazard.
This bothers me. I want to do better, but I can't...
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: Jackie G on September 14, 2005, 10:52:05 pm
I don't know Dettu, you sound like you're doing a lot of walking, and doing your bit.
I live at the top of a hill and there are (overpriced) shops at the foot of it - it's about a 10 min walk downhill and about a 30 minute walk uphill (I haven't done it in a long long time) so it's not something I would think about. And actually I really don't use any of the shops at the foot of the hill, except maybe the chemist when I need a prescription filled, although I am usually doing that on my way home - in the car - from the doctor!
I do try, though, to join up everything I want to do when I'm out so that it's an effective journey.
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
I live at the top of a hill and there are (overpriced) shops at the foot of it - it's about a 10 min walk downhill and about a 30 minute walk uphill (I haven't done it in a long long time) so it's not something I would think about. And actually I really don't use any of the shops at the foot of the hill, except maybe the chemist when I need a prescription filled, although I am usually doing that on my way home - in the car - from the doctor!
I do try, though, to join up everything I want to do when I'm out so that it's an effective journey.
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: Cozwaz on September 15, 2005, 08:49:25 am
This week I have been walking to work and I am loving it - its half an hour each way and by the time I get to the office I feel wide awake.
My car is sick at the moment hencing the walking, but I have come to the conclusion I could probably live without a car. Have some small local shops near by, if I needed to go into town there is always the bus, big supermarket shops can be done online. The snags I would have is getting the dog to the vets or possibly me to the Dentist or Doctors, but saying that Dentist is 30 mins away by car but as I can get evening appointments and possibly get the train it wouldn't be that bad I suppose. Doctors is about 3/4 hour from home - but appointments tend to be during work time so I ended up having to take time off which I would rather try and avoid. The biggest problem would be getting to see some friends where public transport is not an option.
So, the price of fuel is appauling but I am not that bothered - I can live without in theory - but do I take the plung and get shot of car for good!
My car is sick at the moment hencing the walking, but I have come to the conclusion I could probably live without a car. Have some small local shops near by, if I needed to go into town there is always the bus, big supermarket shops can be done online. The snags I would have is getting the dog to the vets or possibly me to the Dentist or Doctors, but saying that Dentist is 30 mins away by car but as I can get evening appointments and possibly get the train it wouldn't be that bad I suppose. Doctors is about 3/4 hour from home - but appointments tend to be during work time so I ended up having to take time off which I would rather try and avoid. The biggest problem would be getting to see some friends where public transport is not an option.
So, the price of fuel is appauling but I am not that bothered - I can live without in theory - but do I take the plung and get shot of car for good!
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: catsmeat on September 15, 2005, 11:01:36 am
One other consideration - how about personal safety? Although my route to work is well served by public transport, there are rural bits nearby which aren't, and walking those roads in the dark would be risky.
I do walk about a mile in and out in the morning - I park outside the city walls and then walk to the office. It's very satisfying to go sailing past tailbacks!
I do walk about a mile in and out in the morning - I park outside the city walls and then walk to the office. It's very satisfying to go sailing past tailbacks!
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: julieann on September 15, 2005, 02:42:17 pm
I work over an hour away from home - almost all expressway driving. Absolutely no chance of walking. My employer is 54 miles, one way, by car. I was thrilled to receive a large increase recently, unfortunately most of it is going for oil changes and gas. That said, I am grateful to have a job to go to every day, belive me!
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: dettu on September 15, 2005, 06:33:30 pm
cozwaz, you could do what my husband used to do way back before we were married. He had moved to our town from a large city where nobody needed a car, and he didn't want to buy one. A few times per year he would rent a car and do all the necessary errands, go to visit friends, etc. while he had it--so you could schedule doctor, dentist, visits to friends and so on all in a few days' time.
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: diamondlady on September 16, 2005, 12:51:08 am
Our gas prices are slowly going down. Hubby saw 2.99 per gallon which is way down from a week ago at 3.49 per gallon, so what does that tell you, sever price gouging going on here. I'm glad it's FINALLY coming down. Hopefully it will stay in the 2.00 range for a while.
Diamondlady
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Diamondlady
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: Jackie G on September 16, 2005, 09:15:18 am
And two major supermarkets here in the UK are lowering their prices now by 3-4p. You know what, we're all mugs for paying the inflated prices, because that's all they were - artificially inflated by the retailers in their PANIC about getting further supplies.
It's not on. Time we stood up to them.
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
It's not on. Time we stood up to them.
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: gee4 on September 16, 2005, 10:06:10 am
I know great news! I get my petrol at Tesco so must check out what the prices are now.
G
G
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: countrigal on September 16, 2005, 02:32:15 pm
On Monday, I saw gas prices of $2.75 at several gas stations... On Wednesday it was down to $2.65 at those stations, and yesterday it was down to $2.63/gal. Wonder what it'll be this afternoon? Makes me wonder when I should fill up... Like, if I wait another day, will it be cheaper? Or will the price go up again? Should I wait a couple of days? Or should I fill up today, and then again tomorrow, if the price goes down, and again...and again.... It's gotten to where even just filling up the van with gas is a gambling game.
CountriGal
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CountriGal
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: kjorg on September 16, 2005, 05:08:18 pm
countrigal-
I wondered the exact same thing last night when I filled up!
"Wonder what it'll be this afternoon? Makes me wonder when I should fill up... Like, if I wait another day, will it be cheaper? Or will the price go up again? Should I wait a couple of days? Or should I fill up today, and then again tomorrow, if the price goes down, and again...and again.... "
Usually weekends are higher out here though. Our prices are still at $3.02-$3.11 for unleaded regular. $50 to fill up my car now! If I'm careful, it can last exactly a week. I remember only budgeting $100/month for gas - and I thought that was high.
-kjorg
I wondered the exact same thing last night when I filled up!
"Wonder what it'll be this afternoon? Makes me wonder when I should fill up... Like, if I wait another day, will it be cheaper? Or will the price go up again? Should I wait a couple of days? Or should I fill up today, and then again tomorrow, if the price goes down, and again...and again.... "
Usually weekends are higher out here though. Our prices are still at $3.02-$3.11 for unleaded regular. $50 to fill up my car now! If I'm careful, it can last exactly a week. I remember only budgeting $100/month for gas - and I thought that was high.
-kjorg
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: gee4 on September 19, 2005, 09:11:30 am
Tesco have slashed their price of unleaded - at the weekend it was 91p a litre!!
G
G
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: diamondlady on September 19, 2005, 01:35:57 pm
I know, I'm so mad at myself for paying 3.49 a gallon at its highest. I should have waited but then there was rumbelings about running out of gasoline too, so I figured I better pay it and be done with it. After that it dropped down to 3.09 and now in some places I've seen it 2.89/gallon but other places are 3.09 and 3.15. Gotta shop around for it.
Diamondlady
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Diamondlady
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: countrigal on September 19, 2005, 07:36:07 pm
Well, just to show you that I'm a good gambler 
... held off on buying gas at $2.73... and again at $2.65 (Friday morning)... and on Friday afternoon $2.56... and will probably go ahead and buy this afternoon if the price is anything like it was on my in to work this morning... a low $2.46. I'd hold off, but I'm needing almost half a tank, and I hate the total for that much gas, much less to wait till I need closer to a full tank. Besides, I might be a gambler, but I'm not that much of a risk-taker. I'd prefer to buy it at $2.46 than to discover tomorrow that it's jumped back up again. 'Course, tomorrow I could be sobbing because it dropped another $0.10/gallon or more overnight. I'll let y'all know how I did.
CountriGal
Peer Moderator
... held off on buying gas at $2.73... and again at $2.65 (Friday morning)... and on Friday afternoon $2.56... and will probably go ahead and buy this afternoon if the price is anything like it was on my in to work this morning... a low $2.46. I'd hold off, but I'm needing almost half a tank, and I hate the total for that much gas, much less to wait till I need closer to a full tank. Besides, I might be a gambler, but I'm not that much of a risk-taker. I'd prefer to buy it at $2.46 than to discover tomorrow that it's jumped back up again. 'Course, tomorrow I could be sobbing because it dropped another $0.10/gallon or more overnight. I'll let y'all know how I did. CountriGal
Peer Moderator
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: kjorg on September 19, 2005, 09:06:13 pm
ours dropped a bit over the weekend here in California also. So far, the "plus" octane hasn't dropped below $3.00/gallon yet. At least, that I've seen. (tongue-in-cheek)
Oh well, I probably only would've saved $2.00 total on the fill-up. I usually fill up on payday so at least I know there's money to cover!! :)
-kjorg
Oh well, I probably only would've saved $2.00 total on the fill-up. I usually fill up on payday so at least I know there's money to cover!! :)
-kjorg
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: countrigal on September 20, 2005, 02:09:07 pm
Well, actually did really good on my gamble. Ended up paying $2.45/gal this morning, since I noticed that the gas station that is the cheapest normally doesn't change their prices until after the morning rush...so I knew I could get it this morning at what I saw it for last night, but without the long line. Now I have a full tank once more and will be watching to see if the gas prices continue to go back down. I still firmly believe that the prices locally will get back down to $2.1X per gallong, just don't know how soon, but at least the prices are going in the right direction.
CountriGal
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CountriGal
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: diamondlady on September 20, 2005, 02:23:19 pm
You know though it bothers me that one station to another is an entirely different price. I don't know how they get away with it. I know it has to do with where they get their gas, but when its from the same gas company, ie, sunoco or mobile and the prices are totally different from city to city, I just don't understand how that all works. Just frustrating. But your right, I'm glad to see it's finally going in the right direction . Not soon enough.
Diamondlady
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. Not soon enough.Diamondlady
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: donnap99 on September 20, 2005, 04:05:57 pm
In reply to:much less to wait till I need closer to a full tank
You mean you're supposed to put gas in the tank BEFORE the little light on the dashboard tells you to?
DonnaP99
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: Jackie G on September 20, 2005, 06:17:21 pm
Gee, my local Tesco is 92.9 but the two Shells round the corner at 93.9
Jackie, Peer Moderator
www.iqps.org
Jackie, Peer Moderator
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: diamondlady on September 20, 2005, 06:52:46 pm
Well with Rita now looming the costal waters, who knows what will happen in the coming weeks. May want to stock some of it if you can. If the New Orleans leveys break again, we could see problems with supply.
Diamondlady
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Diamondlady
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: gee4 on September 21, 2005, 08:51:42 am
Wow even 2 Tesco stations can be different!!
G
G
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: dettu on September 21, 2005, 02:26:52 pm
Diamondlady, stations have different prices for the same reasons that Aveda shampoo costs 15 times more than store brand--consumers are paying for a name brand. They think if they buy Shell or BP that they're getting better gas than if they buy from Mr. No-Name on the corner.
I'm not that gullible, in matters of food or Rx or fuel...as long as the product works, I'll buy the cheaper product. I'm just sorry I can't shop around for home heating fuel (we have natural gas), electricity, etc. because if I could get that cheaper, I would.
WRT when to fill up your tank--after being through the big Northeast blackout a couple of years ago when gas pumps wouldn't work for two days (no electricity to run them), I've tried very hard never to go below 1/4 tank! You never know when some emergency might knock out all the gas stations and leave you running on fumes. But I have not filled up since the Thursday before Katrina, just added enough to keep myself at half a tank...now that we're down to that price again, I'll fill it.
I'm not that gullible, in matters of food or Rx or fuel...as long as the product works, I'll buy the cheaper product. I'm just sorry I can't shop around for home heating fuel (we have natural gas), electricity, etc. because if I could get that cheaper, I would.
WRT when to fill up your tank--after being through the big Northeast blackout a couple of years ago when gas pumps wouldn't work for two days (no electricity to run them), I've tried very hard never to go below 1/4 tank! You never know when some emergency might knock out all the gas stations and leave you running on fumes. But I have not filled up since the Thursday before Katrina, just added enough to keep myself at half a tank...now that we're down to that price again, I'll fill it.
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: countrigal on September 21, 2005, 02:45:06 pm
Too true Dettu, but why is the price different from Shell station to Shell station (or BP to BP) in one town?
Answer: Each station is responsible for ordering their own gas. Yes, the over-all station-type may have an order for gas at $X/gal, but each station, depending on when they place their order, may be locked in at a slightly different price. Ie: Say I'm the main supplier for BP gas, and I have 400 gallons of gas that is priced at $2.20/gal, and another 300 gallons comes in today at a price of $2.50/gal. Now Store 1 ordered gas yesterday, asking for 300 gallons, so the price they locked in at was at $2.20/gal. Store 2 also orders 300 gallons, but they order it today. Now I have 100 gallons left of the $2.20/gal, but the price has now climbed to $2.50/gal on my most recent gas, so I charge Store 2 $2.50/gal for all 300 gallons they get, making my profit rate higher on this transaction. So now Store 1 can price their gas lower than Store 2 and still make a profit. Of course, if the price for my gas had dropped, say came in at $2.00/gal instead of $2.50, I would still sell the 300 gallons to Store 2 at the 2nd price ($2.00) and they would then be cheaper than Store 1.
CountriGal
Peer Moderator
Answer: Each station is responsible for ordering their own gas. Yes, the over-all station-type may have an order for gas at $X/gal, but each station, depending on when they place their order, may be locked in at a slightly different price. Ie: Say I'm the main supplier for BP gas, and I have 400 gallons of gas that is priced at $2.20/gal, and another 300 gallons comes in today at a price of $2.50/gal. Now Store 1 ordered gas yesterday, asking for 300 gallons, so the price they locked in at was at $2.20/gal. Store 2 also orders 300 gallons, but they order it today. Now I have 100 gallons left of the $2.20/gal, but the price has now climbed to $2.50/gal on my most recent gas, so I charge Store 2 $2.50/gal for all 300 gallons they get, making my profit rate higher on this transaction. So now Store 1 can price their gas lower than Store 2 and still make a profit. Of course, if the price for my gas had dropped, say came in at $2.00/gal instead of $2.50, I would still sell the 300 gallons to Store 2 at the 2nd price ($2.00) and they would then be cheaper than Store 1.
CountriGal
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: dettu on September 21, 2005, 04:40:42 pm
Maybe I could start riding a horse. The price of oats is not as variable, I'll bet. 
Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: diamondlady on September 21, 2005, 09:31:05 pm
Y'a know I keep telling hubby the same thing about the price of milk and how much just the two of us drink. I bought 3 gallons of it Friday night and I had to go get more milk on Monday. Sheesh! I know off topic but still the same result, I tease all teh time about buying a cow, but too much like work
Diamondlady
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Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: whitesatin on September 21, 2005, 09:38:11 pm
Ohhhhhh! CountriGal! You're making my head hurt! Too much like a story problem. Reaching for my bottle of ibuprofen.
WhiteSatin
WhiteSatin Title: Re: Environment vs. consumption and convenience
Post by: diamondlady on September 22, 2005, 01:28:07 pm
Now depending upon where Rita lands they say gas prices could spike up to 5.00/gallon! OUCH! Just depends on where she goes and if she hits those refineries. Lets hope for the best. But on the plus side of things, they said by Christmas after hurricane season, prices should fall back down to 2.60 per gallon range. I could deal with that at this point if it stays consistent. I feel lucky I was able to get gas at 2.89/per gallon last night. Figured I had better and ride out the next price wave if at all possible.
Diamondlady
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Diamondlady
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