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General Discussion => Admins 4 Admins => Topic started by: donnap99 on August 14, 2001, 09:16:23 am



Title: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: donnap99 on August 14, 2001, 09:16:23 am
I received negative reports yesterday by several people, separately, when I came back from vacation about my 2 subordinates (mail room clerk & A/V clerk, whose desks are both in the mail room).  I didn't do anything about it yesterday, so I could think some more about it.



Although this does not sound like them, I am told that they became very lax while I was away.  I was given specific examples: loud music, computer games, staying on personal calls at one's desk for several minutes while there was a staff member at the counter, even nodding off at on'es desk.  



How do you suggest I discuss this with them?  I don't want to point out specifics in a "group" meeting, but on the other hand, I think it should be a group meeting.



So far I've thought about beginning this meeting with "I have received several reports about some things that were observed last week.  I've been told of examples where you appear to be not on task during working hours, which gives our department, and each of us personally, a bad name.  Impressions are important.  Even if what I have been told is not completely true, impressions have been made, and now we need to come up with a plan to overcome this reputation."



Thanks for your thoughts!

 


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: countrigal on August 14, 2001, 09:34:45 am
I don't know how best to handle it but from personal experience the group way, though least confrontational, has tended to cause hard feelings from others who were not named.  Of course, this always depends on your workgroup and yours might not be that way.  In one situation I had a supervisor receive comments like that about me and he handled it in a way that I appreciated and even welcomed.  He pulled me aside and in a very non-confrontational, non-judgemental (negative) way stated that he had heard some things where I had not been as attentive to work as I should have been (by spending too much time in another office) and that whether or not it was true, appearances have a way of affecting us.  He stated that as a team we all needed to be aware of what appearance we were projecting.  Then concluded with something along the lines of "I'm just letting you know that some folks are saying this so you can be aware of it and minimize it before any appearance you want to create is damaged by heresy."  In my case, it was completely justified by work, but I went out of my way to ensure that everyone knew for a fact that it was work and not personal and it never became an issue.



Again, this might not work in all situations but it is an example of how it was handled in mine.



Good luck in a touchy situation!


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: energizer on August 14, 2001, 09:59:33 am
CG, I would hesitate before doing this in a "group" meeting.  I have found that others in the group get offended when a general statement is made to the entire group instead of to the individual committing the infraction.  Often the reason for making it a "group message" is done just to make things easier on the manager who doesn't like to confront an employee about something he or she has done.  It isn't fair to the rest of the team, and it also does an injustice to the offending party.  How can someone change their behavior if they don't know they're doing something wrong?  You might assume they will recognize themselves, but they might not -- or might choose ignore the message or to believe you aren't talking about them.



As a manager, it is your duty to manage.  That means challenging (in a professional way) those who's behavior needs to be modified.  And you need to do it face to face, no matter how difficult or uncomfortable it may be.



I am not in a managerial position now, but I was an office manager in a previous company and supervised 6 clerical employees.  One of the most difficult parts of that job was doing performance reviews, but I did them.  You have to be willing to give your people the input they need in order for them to be able to grow in their positions.



Sorry if I sound as though I'm preaching, but I really do think it is important to meet this challenge head-on and not hide behind a group message.



Just my two cents' worth.



Energizer  


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: winkiebear on August 14, 2001, 09:59:35 am
I would not address it in the group, but rather individually.



When presented to a group, even in a non-confrontational manner, it causes distrust and resentment among team members.


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: donnap99 on August 14, 2001, 10:02:22 am
Clarification:  There are only 2 subordinates, and I received similar reports on both of them goofing off.  There are no apparent "non-guilty" parties.  Would you still suggest speaking with them separately?  


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: winkiebear on August 14, 2001, 10:07:25 am
Yes, I would address them separately.  



They'll discuss it amongst the two of them once you're finished speaking, I'm sure.  



But as a manager this is a confidential issue you need to talk about with each individual.


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: countrigal on August 14, 2001, 10:14:56 am
Definitely handle them seperately.



And Energizer, exactly my point in not doing the group thing and instead doing the one-on-one.  You just said it better than I did.  


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: admin2geeks on August 14, 2001, 10:21:03 am
Just be sure to handle it NOW.

My recent boss waited 6 months before confronting me in my formal yearly review about things he had "heard" at that point it was hard to give explanantion for things which were explainable all along.



I am very impressed with how thoughtful you all are!


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: energizer on August 14, 2001, 10:40:08 am
CG, I just realized that you weren't the one who originated this post -- sorry, I must have been half asleep when I read it.  I should have posted my response to Donna, not to you, especially since we agreed on how to handle this!  Sorry for the mixup.



Energizer  


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: Katie G on August 14, 2001, 10:48:51 am
Great advice, all round, but I'm wondering from our experts out there, what is the most professional way to handle the "heard" issue.  



Personally, when somebody comes to me with something they "heard" my antenna goes up and the first question is always, "Who or where did you "hear" it from?"  Is a manager/supervisor under any obligation (legal, policy, ethical, or moral) to tell who you "heard" it from?  What do you do or say if the "accused" wants to know who is saying what about them?  


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: energizer on August 14, 2001, 11:08:19 am
Did, you bring up a very valid point.  Generally, I've found that when someone else mentions an infraction by another employee, chances are it's something I (when I was office manager) also noticed but have, for whatever reason, decided to ignore it.  When someone else notices, too, then I will say something.  If that isn't the case, then I'd ask the person "offering" the information where they heard it.  When they respond "I'd rather not say" or something similar to that, if it isn't something I had witnessed myself, I'd probably shelve any comments until I do witness it.  That way, when I'm challenging the offending person to improve their performance, or change their behavior, or whatever the case may be, I can honestly say I observed the behavior myself.



I believe that a person should be given the benefit of the doubt when I haven't witnessed the infraction myself unless the person telling you about it is willing to allow you to mention them by name.  You never know what motives the other person might have in informing you about something.  I do agree that you shouldn't wait 6 months (or whatever) before bringing the situation to the offending employee's attention, but if you haven't witnessed it yourself you shouldn't mention it at all.  It's only hearsay then, unless you have positive proof, and it is unfair (and also unethical) to accuse based solely on the word of someone who doesn't want to be identified!



Again, just my opinion.



Energizer  


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: donnap99 on August 14, 2001, 11:48:27 am
I don't want it to sound like heresay, that's why I want to word it something like: "Even if what I have been told is not completely true, impressions have been made, ..."  



I got these reports from several unrelated people, who each approached me sincerely, even apologetically, but thought I should know.



I must say too, it's not completely out of character for these guys, but the severity of the comments I received is unusual.


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: phoenix55 on August 15, 2001, 12:14:26 am
Donna,



I have to go with the everyone else--address it with the individuals only, apart from each other.  It's embarrassing for them to be "disciplined" in front of each  even if it's only a talk and not discipline.



The hardest part about being a manager, I think, is that when presented with the evidence, sometimes you just gotta be the "bad guy."  If a number of people saw these things happening, they happened.  This doesn't mean that your people can't be afforded an opportunity to present their side to you, but this is all the evidence you have now and you have to go with it.  The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.  



Good luck!


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: countrigal on August 15, 2001, 12:24:13 am
Donna, you have the right idea.  Go to the individual and state that while you were gone folks got the impression that blank and blank was occurring and that even if it wasn't the appearance is enough to make the whole section look bad.  By coaching it as an area for improvement/watching then even if they are innocent it gives them some guidance.


Title: Re: Need advice on dealing with subordinates
Post by: lioness70 on August 15, 2001, 12:29:38 am
I think I'm going to be the renegade on this one, because I don't see why those people couldn't have told these guys THEMSELVES that what they were doing wasn't cool.  If they didn't exaggerate what these guys were doing.



And having been through it myself, I didn't appreciate being hit with "anonymous" complaints.  But my situation was like Admin2Geeks', nobody brought up any problems to me over a 4 month period!  I mean, specifically, I was supposedly misfiling for 4 months and nobody said anything to me...I would have appreciated it if someone took time out to help me, not let the problem go for that long!!!



But then again, my situation was mismanaged from the get-go.  I agree with the others, meet with them separately and get their side of the story.  Let them give their side of the story, and agree to work something out...after all, you said this behavior doesn't sound like them.



Good luck, you're in a rock and a hard place.  Most people are nonconfrontational and would rather let others (i. e. their managers) deal with this stuff.  I believe differently, but that's me.


Title: Subordinates
Post by: kkosmoski on August 14, 2001, 03:31:21 pm
I would not want anyone else "speaking to" individuals who report to me and are my responsibility.  Just because people have clerical jobs does not mean anyone can correct their behavior.



I like to approach things with humor while letting my people know they have been found out, and I wouldn't have a problem speaking to them both together.  I might say, "I heard you two were having a grand ole time while I was out! (said with a smile)", "You know several people mentioned your loud music and you generally weren't paying attention to your responsibilities."  "Hey, I was your age myself, but let's let this be the last time this kind of thing happens (said without a smile)"  I would tell them that people are counting on them and I consider them professionals.  Over the years I have found that kindness and humor mixed with and attitude that conveys - I expect the best from you - works pretty good with goof offs.



Another thing to consider is that these two may need more to do.  Next time you have to be out of the office, leave them a project with a deadline.