PA and Secretary Community - Deskdemon.com

I cannot find a previous thread/posting so am starting a new one relating to this subject...

Over the years I have come to realise that some (not all) PAs who have been with their employer a long time, are not always as efficient as they think they are.  Since joining my current employer just over 18 months ago, this has become quite apparent and I would be interested in your comments.

At an Exec level, various PAs including myself, are responsible for issuing documentation on behalf of our bosses.  Now I am extremely fussy when it comes to detail because I know it will only come back to haunt me if it's not correct.

Recently I have had to query some information which I find not only annoying to have to chase up, but also, lazy on the part of the PA for not checking it in the first place.  This included sending an updated meeting agenda for a recurring meeting.  When I checked the details, the time of the meeting did not match either the meeting request nor the room booking.  In order to keep my boss right I phoned the PA in question and asked her about this.  She was my buddy/mentor when I started here.

Her reply was one of shock that I noticed such information and claimed I was picky, yet I was quite shocked at her for not noticing the error.  She re-confirmed the correct time of the meeting and said she would send an update to attendees.

Personally it's my job to ensure my boss has the correct information, but it's certainly not my job to do the work of other PAs. 

This combined with my recent posting on "CEO's PA" just further highlighted to me that either these individuals fell into their roles by default or are just not up to scratch when it comes to working at this level.

A similar situation happened to me recently.  An agenda and papers were sent to me for a meeting my boss attends on a monthly basis.  I noticed that the agenda did not have the same time as I had in the diary although the date and venue was correct.

A quick call to the PA who issued the papers was made, she apologised and said she would re-issue with correct time.  It turned out she had used the previous agenda - 'saved as' - and did not alter to a new time (usually the meetings are all at the same time but this particular one was different). 

She was grateful I noticed it and gave her a chance to put right.  Perhaps the PA you were dealing with Gee was a little embarrassed to be 'picked up' and reacted as she did - perhaps she was having a particularly difficult day and you caught her at a bad moment - could be any number of reasons.

Yes, she should have picked up that the time needed altering but at the end of the day,  not such a big deal.  I wouldn't have called her lazy for making this mistake but I expect that next time she is producing an agenda, this mistake will be in her mind and she will be careful not to make it again.

We all learn by our mistakes - there would be a definate problem if this error happened again and again but usually it only takes one mistake to ensure you don't do the same thing wrong again.

I don't think Gee you can say you were doing the work of the other PA or that she is not up to scratch in her job - surely we PAs should all rub along together doing our role and if you can help another PA (or anyone else in your office) that is a positive trait in the scheme of things.

We are all human and errors do occur.

I understand mistakes can happen but lately I seem to be constantly chasing up on these kind of errors.

It's not the first time this has happened where one of them has had to resend a meeting request or an agenda.  The "save as" option is fine if used properly.

What I found offensive was, I was the one being called picky, when I know for a fact my boss would have queried it anyway.  Not picky, just being efficient and doing my job.  For me it's a no brainer, common sense to check these things.  If you were sending invites for a party you would ensure the details were correct, no?

As for rubbing along together, I wish they would!

Yes, I totally agree Gee that if you feel you are constantly chasing such errors this would be frustrating.  Some people will be more careful to ensure the same mistakes don't happen again but others, well, perhaps they won't.

Don't take this the wrong way Gee but do you think that possibly when you bought this mistake to her attention, as you were feeling annoyed such a mistake happened, you may have sounded a little abrupt or irritated and she may have reacted in the way she did as she picked up on this tone in your voice?   If this is not the case, then as I said before, you may have caught her at a difficult moment in her day.

Obviously I was not there so don't know how you spoke to her but the reason why I mention it is because I know that people in my office react as your lady did when things go wrong and they are 'pulled up' and I am sure the person who spoke to them did not necessarily mean it to but they came across in an off-hand/scolding manner. 

Party invites for example, yes you have a good point here and nobody would deliberatly send anything out that was wrong I am certain, but mistakes do happen - part and parcel of office life.  I think the thing is learning to accept this is part of office life and not to dwell on it and feel negative. Some things/people you have no control over. Frustrating yes, but stuff happens. Keep smiling  :)

No I wasn't abrupt at all.  I emailed in reply to her email and updated agenda, said thanks for the update but noticed the timings didn't match the original meeting request or room booking and I just wanted to clarify, for my boss, which details were correct.  She then called me.

She had no knowledge of it until I mentioned it.  Obviously I'm the only one who reads things.

I am finding that since we are al doing the jobs of 3 or 4 people these days, being overburdened does cut down on attention to details.  I just being these types of errors to the attention of the person, they fix it and move on.  We are all human and we all make mistakes. 

Peaches, neither myself nor the any of the other PAs in my company are doing the work of 3 or 4 people, far from it.  The structure has been the same for many many years.  We all have one boss and a team, the numbers of which vary according to each department.

If anything my boss has one of the smallest departments, while the PA in question here, has the least amount of staff, and the PA to the CEO only has the CEO to work for.

I think I've only ever posted on DD once before, as I do find the overwhelming negativity from some posters just too difficult to engage with. 

However, this particular topic - and the other about the CEOs PA really made me want to respond. 

Firstly, I think that the title of this thread is really confrontational.  Like our bosses, all PAs have different characteristics and different strengths and weaknesses.  That's what makes a team really work.  I'm the PA to the CEO of a bluechip and I'm good at my job.  I know my strengths and my weaknesses - and there are many of both - and I appreciate the strengths that the other PAs in the company bring to the table and I(generally) forgive the weaknesses.  A PA that needs to send an appointment twice because she got the timing wrong the first time may be an excellent networker, or fantastic at booking travel, or have some other skill that makes her great at her job.  Or she may just be an average PA, but a really nice person to have around.. don't underestimate how valuable it is to have someone that's friendly, co-operative and good fun around the place. 

Perhaps we all need to look at our co-workers and think about what makes them valuable to the company, and see what we can learn from each other rather than only seeing the negative. 

Secondly, the comment that the PA to the CEO has only one person to look after.. !  Well if she's anything like me, the PA to the CEO will, on an average day, do something like this - provide assistance to all the senior management around the world, (because nothing can happen unless the CEO is involved).  I take care of arranging the confidential meetings that no-one else can know about, the Chairman, the ex-Chairman, the rest of the Board, the investors, the media, the general public, the regulatory bodies, the other boards that he sits on outside our company, the industry associations.. etc., etc,  not to mention the random emails, letters and phone calls to the 'managing director' or 'the ceo' which I need to deal with so my boss doesn't have to.  Oh - and all of these people think that because their item is the most important thing going on in their diary right now its the most important thing going on in his diary too.

Rant over.. that's my two penn'orth for another couple of years. 

Yes Debbie I have done all those tasks too in a previous job, but I never had to follow up and ask someone what time a meeting was at because neither the agenda, meeting request nor room booking calendar matched up.  For me that's common sense, no training required.

You misinterpret my negativity with frustration at individuals who don't even know they have made these mistakes.

Only this afternoon I had a converstion with someone who notices how good a job I do compared to the other PAs who seemingly, have not been in the field as long as I have.  In fact as I have mentioned before, they have fallen into their jobs by default.  It is frustrating to watch it happen.

Some people have had it easy, but I know what it's like to have to be efficient and make a good impression in case something might come along and jeaopardise that.

I don’t under estimate friendliness but the workplace is not a funhouse, we are all there to do a job to the best of our ability.  When I see that ability is not forthcoming it concerns me.....because it may affect how I do my job.

Debbie

You've posted 6 times before, so more than you thought!

Your contribution is valuable and welcome, and please don't feel put off contributing in future.  We are a wide and diverse range of people.  Yes, sometimes there is a bit of negativity, but there is also fun and sensitive posting - be part of it and join in occasionally.

Like me, you're PA to a CEO and it can be a mad busy day.  Today I . . .

fielded everything away from my boss apart from folk he had meetings set up with, had a newsletter meeting with managers, proof read the new newsletter, paid some invoices, had disagreement with finance, sorted out a printing issue, and then guided boss and our guests and photographers through a major PR event, then back to office to the plaudits - all this with a stonking headache!  Oh, and yes, the sun shone - all arranged specially, of cours!

1. Why are so many PAs not competent enough to do their job?

PAs who fall into these roles have little knowledge or training because they started at the bottom and worked their way up - a learn on the job type of PA.  It's possible their employer saw no need for qualifications and instead accepted that their acquired knowledge of the company over the years was more important.

2. Is common sense a thing of the past?

The PA who successfully achieves qualifications may be more likely to have the skills but sometimes lacks common sense.  I do not for one minute suggest this applies to all PAs who have gained Diplomas or Degrees but am merely pointing out that sometimes this is the case.  There is no training course to learn common sense but a bit of savvy goes a long way.

3. Do Management accept there is a limited level of expertise?

From what I have seen, yes, Management do seem to believe that there is a limit of expertise in this field, until someone new comes along and outshines everyone.  You cannot sit back and assume a PA has no more to give.  With the correct training and development, the introduction of new skills and a structured career path, we can all do things better and smarter.  It's whether or not staff and/or Management are willing to make the effort.

Gee- You and I do approach this role in the same manner.  It is frustrating when having to follow up all of the time but it does happen.  I have come to the conclusion, I can not change the way other PA's and their boss handle their responsibilities, some communicate and some don't.  I have focused on making sure my boss is where they need to be and have the information (correct) to do their job.  It has made the frustration a little easier to manage:) I practice the "circle of control" and "it is what it is":)   

Gee – on the whole, I so sympathise with everything you’re saying here.  I now work in an Oxford College, where I am one of two – I’m going to use the word “professional” - PAs.  The other one works for just one person.  As do I.  Except that that person runs the College.  The saying here is (and my lovely boss was the one who first said it!) “Well, I run the College of course but Gem (me!) runs me”. 

We also have with the College a number of other departments, each with their own administrator.  And I pull my hair out on a regular basis because of what those administrators do and do not do.  Can and cannot do.  One particular administrator here was forever getting the same thing wrong again and again.  In the end, I made a vow to just accept that she’s never going to change and try and not let it bother me - even though, some of those mistakes had a big impact on me when I have to clear up her mess. 

As the “senior” PA here, I think it behoves me to try and teach or at least guide the others when they get things wrong and my door is always open if someone needs to talk, or ask advice.  Accepting that they “fell into” their jobs by accident – say by temping - helps.  A bit.  And I have a huge amount of respect for temps – I’ve done a lot of it in the past.

The other PA couldn’t organise a social occasion in a brewery, if you get my drift.

As for other PAs around the University – well, some of them are exceptional, but some have, as you say, fallen into the position.  Oxford – and a lot of other places, I know – has a tendency to promote from within.  I was recruited into the role here from outside so I know it was for my skillset.  (And I know that I constantly surprise both my boss and others by the things that I can do that they might not necessarily associate with the job.  Thirty-odd years of experience will out!)

It is incredibly frustrating to have to repeat the same things to other people because they just don’t – or won’t – get it.  So, of your most recent post, I SO agree with all three points to a varying degree.

1.  I think that a lot of PAs have fallen into the job by default.  Also a strong believer in that a lot call themselves PA just to “big themselves” up – or their bosses do it.  I used to hate it – still do, actually – when people would say, oh I’m not a secretary, I’m a PA… thinking it was just word games!  It’s not, always, but a lot of people can’t differentiate.

2. Is common sense a thing of the past.  Oh yes.  Yes.  And YES.

3. Do Management accept there is a limited level of expertise?  Some yes, not all.  Some really believe that it takes no expertise to do what we do.  And others recognise that it’s a job needing a huge and varied skillset.

I think if you take one step back and one (or a hundred) deep breaths when you next come across a mistake that someone else has made – I always think, there but for the grace of God …

Oh, as for your rude Post Boy.  I came across one years ago.  Whilst I was temping.  But the PA I was working with never took any stick from him and she showed me that I had to do the same.  Bite back a little bit.  After a little while, he was as good as gold.  Even sent up wine and chocolates at Christmas… I’m not sure that would work in your case, but might it be worth a try?

Phew!  I’ve not posted for absolutely ages, and now this is virtually an essay!

Gem,

So nice to see you back.  Where have you been?

I so miss working in a University environment - students are somehow easier to work with than the children...whoops...I mean the adults I have to deal with.

We had a 1 hour training session yesterday for a new internal online travel order system.  Don't even get me started on that one.  Three individuals have been trialling it in the past few months.  A few of those in the training session yesterday tried it out for the first time this morning, but it's got more bugs than a hornet's nest!  I not only asked 20 questions yesterday but asked about another 120 today.

Never mind, it's nearly Friday!  :D

Hey there!

I haven't been anywhere just really really busy!  I first found DD when I worked at my last job and could finish what was required of me by about 10.30!!  Also, I have a different boss here to the one I started with and as she takes on more work, it trickles back (more like cascades, really!) down on me. 

I think I've come up to DD a couple of times, but not posted.  But your post really touched something in me and I felt compelled to throw in my two pence worth!

I love the job though, and working in College.  It's a good'un.  I reckon they'll have to carry me out in a pine box  ;D

I don't envy you your travel training session.  Eek!  I use a travel agent that I've known & used for about 15 years - so much easier!!

You may have asked 20 questions yesterday and a 100 more than that today but ... I wonder ... given all that you said in the post that I replied to ... were you the only one asking questions?!  ;)

Don't say it's nearly Friday.  I thought it was earlier!!  :-\

Gem,

The online travel system is the internal method used to raise paperwork for sign off.  We still need to call our travel agent to book flights etc.  I think there might be a new system rolled out for that too. ::)

When more of us begin to use the system I am sure more questions will be asked.

It's strange how IT have just replicated the Word template we have been using to an online version, without any input from the user to ascertain what is required and what isn't.  An ideal opportunity lost I think.

Oh don't start me on templates designed with no user input.  Have fought a raging battle for the last two terms over one.  Guess who won?  ;D

I hope the whole travel thing works out.  Was the system "broke" before or did they just decide to fix it?  ;)

We just used a Word template in the past, filled it in on screen or by hand, then submitted it for sign off.  The template has been replicated to an online version so you can imagine the bugs that have appeared.

I think it will be useful in generating reports from the online data.