PA and Secretary Community - Deskdemon.com

In your position have you ever scanned the incoming resumes/CVs for a position?  If so, what are  "your" triggers for disqualifying an applicant? (If you have never actually scanned resumes/CVs what "would" you look for?) Some reviewers look for any typo, if the education fits, job jumping?  If you had 100 applicants for one "PA/EA" job you would need to qualify them down to 10 or so to show the boss, how would you do that?

I used to work for an executive recruiter and scanned resumes daily.

Depends on whether I am looking at hard copies or site based resumes.  Site based resume (career builder) strip out formatting.

Hard copy resume, first I look at the formatting, is it esthetically pleasing; do any typos jump out at me?  I disregard any colored paper; resumes should be cream or white only.  One marketing resume I saw used the logo for each company where he worked.  Nice trick for marketing, too distracting for an admin resume.  Also I don’t think a picture should be included on a resume.

Next I would look for candidates that have similar industry experience and have supported the same level or one under the available position.  Then a quick scan of the time line, any long periods of non-employment?  How many jobs in the last five years? 

Then I look for computer skills and any certifications MOS or CAP.  I see quite a few ads where bachelor’s degrees are required for admin positions.  Two thoughts on this: 1: does the company want an admin to move into a management position but start at the bottom (then yes to the degree) or 2.  Does the company want a career admin (then no the degree is not as important as the skill set). 

Does the resume give me any hint to the age of the applicant?  There are usually some telling signs and I would usually know the age group that would be preferred by the manager needing an admin.

The biggest no no is for me contact email - people still use their current work email as a contact, which I find appalling or their date night aol screen name! 

Q. Have you ever scanned the incoming resumes/CVs for a position? 
A. Yes I have but it must be noted, the majority of vacancies in NI are applied for via application forms, not CVs.  Most companies do not accept CVs for a job vacancy and a lot of employers recruit via employment agencies who have already scanned CVs of suitable applicants.

Q. If so, what are "your" triggers for disqualifying an applicant?
A. First and foremost the applicant must meet the criteria requested for the role eg. qualifications and experience.  It has been noted that some who hold degrees or have had office manager roles, are more likely to be interviewed as it's another selection criteria that is used.

Q. If you had 100 applicants for one "PA/EA" job you would need to qualify them down to 10 or so to show the boss, how would you do that?
A.  As above, select those who meet the criteria and narrow it down based on age, experience and their work history.  How an applicant words a CV or application form is vital.  I have re-written several CVs for DD members.  You need to use the right command of English and not over use the "buzz" words.

I have been involved in a number of interviews over the years, both for permanent and temporary positions and at different levels in the organisations in which I have worked. 

My company has a recruitment policy which covers all aspects of acquiring new employees, and we follow that to the letter.  I helped write that policy and it has been tried out quite a few times so I know it works.  We have an application form for permanent or short contracts, but prior to this policy coming into force, we did ask for CVs.

If I were reviewing CVs, I would expect the document to be presented well, with attention given to spelling and layout, clarity of information and so on.  There is little point in submitting a CV, or an application form for that matter, which is full of mistakes; after all, it is the candidate's "shop window".  I don't much like to read jargon.  I like to read a CV which gives some indication that the candidate has understood the job details and is applying for the right, as opposed to any, job.  Truthfulness is an absolute must, and I expect any gaps in work history to be explained in a manner that makes sense.   Application forms, and sometimes those advertisements asking for CVs, do give an opportunity for a personal statement.  I look here for something that is original and indicates that thought has been given to the statement.

In a PA, I look for a coherent CV, solid skills, a good general education, and professional qualifications where appropriate, someone who is a sticker not a quitter and doesn't flit from job to job too often.  I also look for potential and ambition in a candidate. 

Anyone who faces redundancy is not a quitter.  Employers don't seem to understand that it is not an employee's fault if made redundant.  That is one of the hardest and toughest factors I have had to face, yet I in between redundancies, I have always been able to find temporary employment.

Nowadays employers need to learn to "stick" with employees and not get rid.  I have always been able to account for "gaps" when I was made redundant but again, employers treat this as a negative aspect when in fact they should be picking up that such individuals are in fact able to "adapt" to situations and fit in quicker than others.

Quite often while in temporary assignments, I was offered a permanent position because suitable candidates could not be found.  What does that tell you about a selection process??

Re:  Work histories and "job hopping"

I've taken the following into account when looking at resumes.  If an applicant is in their 20s - early 30s, I might expect more short-lived work posts....looking for the right "fit", broadening one's experience, and pursuing better economic opportunities is a common MO with younger workers as they're figuring out their niche and working to pay off student loans (some kids in the US are graduating college with the equivalent of a mortgage for a school debt!). 

For an "older" worker, if the short lived jobs started happening in the last 4-5 years (when the economy tanked) then they're probably the victim of being downsized, finding another job, getting downsized from that one (Last hired, first fired and all that).  I don't know that we can apply a blanket assumption to someone based on their work history nowadays.  The economy has changed a number of the old "rules".

Quite true Katie, at least let applicants explain themselves before ruling them out of an interview.  Having been with my current employer now over 3 years, it was very clear when I joined the company how "stale" the other assistants were, both in their attitude to work, and their knowledge of Office and other IT systems.  Because they were lacking in those areas, it stood out like a sore thumb to me and therefore I count myself lucky that I am well-equipped to be able to walk into any job and hold my own.

I take it as a compliment now when someone tells me how good a job I do or when I help them out...it seems I am the only tech savvy assistant around!  When I see how some send meeting requests, it pains me immensely, as I feel they have become stuck in a rut, safe over the past 20 years with no thought of the future and how they would cope if they lost their job tomorrow.  No one is safe these days but we have to learn to stop making assumptions about job applicants and their work history.

Just a couple of points I'd like to make on the comments above (all of them)...  First, job hopping is different that being made redundant and taking temp jobs while searching for a new job.  I think that this is fairly noticable to an experienced reviewer.  For example, if in the last 10 years the person has had 8 or more jobs, I would think job hopping vs redundancy.  Of course, this is based on my experience in the US and would differ (potentially) for those in other countries, so keep this in mind in reading my reasoning.  If someone has had that many jobs in 10 years, and are not coming straight out of schooling, where perhaps they were working part-time while getting an education, then it would raise a flag to me.  I would have to ask if there is a reason that they are unable to keep a job?  Let's face it, education, book knowledge, computer certificates and all does not necessarily make the person a great PA, as they may not have the necessary ability to keep quiet about what they learn in their role, are completely inept at dealing with customers, whatever.  If you were laid off and working temp jobs, these would be listed as such (I would expect) on the resume as working for a temp agency fulfilling requirements with x, y, and z, thus showing that the temp agency saw enough in you to keep you on their books and using you whenever they could.  However, if you worked in Company A for 8 months, then Company B for 1 yr and so on, and nothing amounts to much time during that 10 yr period, I'd say you are job hopping, and that would be a red flag.

Others mentioned that they screen for age, either by the years shown on the application or by words or experiences or whatever.  I have a more of an issue with folks saying they'd screen folks out for age than for potentially job hopping, yet I'm the only one mentioning this?  Are we saying that only folks of a certain age are qualified to be a PA at a certain level?  That skills and experience are less important than the age one has attained while gaining those skills or experience?  And if it's that those we support have ideas about what age is appropriate or best for their PA, are we really doing our career any justice by screening the applicants out by "their" desired age brackets and not allowing the applicants the opportunity to perhaps change their minds?

Just my quick thoughts on the subject....

CG,

You've obviously never lost your job or been made redundant.  Are you saying those who do, should sit at home and not work so they don't have to add 8 or 10 jobs to their CV?

When you are made redundant and start a new job elsewhere, you are last in.  So when redundancies arise you are more likely to be first out.  When faced with redundancy you really have no say in the matter.

If that raises a flag to you, then people like me with skills and experience wouldn't get anywhere.  It's because of my skills and experience that I have gained the jobs I have. 

The best PAs are those who have experience behind them and are able to carry out their job with little or no supervision.  A school leaver wouldn't necessarily be able to slot into an Exec role, so you learn on the job and move up the ladder by gaining experience and adding to your skills along the way.

When I lived and worked in England it was and still is the norm to move to a new job every couple of years, mainly because employers see you as stale and rusty if you stay in a job longer than that.  In the current climate that has changed a little as people are trying to hold on to jobs.  But there are no guarantees in any industry.

I have temped in various well-known companies and financial institutions and was offered many permanent jobs during that time.  Not all were suitable for me so I was careful to choose the right one at the right time.  End up choosing the wrong job and you will only have to explain to another potential employer why you left - now that to me is worse!

There are many on DD who have temped over the years.  As usual temps work to keep themselves employed but for some reason we are still treated like second class citizens and our CVs questioned.  It's not about not keeping a job, it's about being unlucky or unfortunate.  No one can see into the future, if we could, we would all be much better off. 

How would you feel if after being made redundant with 2 other colleagues, you all ended up attending the same interviews for quite some time?  It happened, so you take work where you can and hope that an employer will realise your worth.  I wish I could list some of the companies I have worked for just so you can see what I have achieved.

If you are going to judge a person on what you call "job hopping", you've missed yourself one hell of an employee.  Never judge a book by it's cover, find out what's on the inside first.

I'll chime back in for the age response and give my reason for what I stated before.
Let's say all the candidates have the same computer skill set, but have different ages.  (Yes, I know not quite a reasonable senario.)  The manager who needs an eaa is in his early 50's.  He has worked with a few 20 somethings and had various issues (personal life at work, late, not willing to work extra or over).  This manager is looking for a mature admin who is willing to put more into a job and is not just there for the paycheck or the stepping stone experience. 
Plus it all boils down to chemistry, how will the admin interact with the manager.  Does a younger person have the skill set to understand how to navigate the different levels of an organization and how to communicate among those levels?  Does the 20 something have the same "relatability" as the 50 year old?  Probably not.
I'm not saying a 20 something doesn't have a viable skill set and may bring different ideas to the table, but my opinion is that most managers have an approximate age in mind when interviewing candidates.

Don't judge a book by its cover, but look for what is inside?  I think I can read fairly clearly what is inside some of the "books" who post here and appear to treat this website as their personal blog!

Once again, Country Gal, you've hit the nail on the head in understanding what I wrote earlier.  Thank you.

And once again, very sadly, I am disappointed by the tone of some of the posts here.   

BR,

Why are you constantly dissing my postings?  People who judge don't matter, and people who matter don't judge.

If you care to look on the blog section you might want to read what others are posting.  I am entitled to respond to postings as is anyone and defend my case in regard to my own personal experiences.

I feel sorry for you as you seem to always be "sad" these days.  You might want to lighten up, stop the cyber bullying and start reading some better books!

That's enough, ladies.  Yellow flag warning.

If you can't play nice, stay quiet.  Some of you are too quick to jump down each other's throats.

Let's all remember that we are all entitled to our own view, whatever that may be, and it will not always be what others think or feel.  While we are entitled to air our views, we need to remember that people in different countries will have a different rules to operate by etc etc and what works for one will not always work for another.

Any more and this thread will be locked.

Atlanta, I can see where you're coming from, and understand it.  So I have to ask, in the mode of fleshing out a thought (and in no way trying to attack anyone on here, no matter how my posts are taken)...

In your scenario you mentioned that, in the manager's experience a 20 something comes in late, brings drama (outside life to work), etc... but that this is not brought in by someone more mature in age.  What about that 28 yr old who is settled, mature, needing a settled job, and with the skill sets and experience to go with it.  You'd screen her out because she is not 30+, 40+, 50+?  As for not being able to relate to the manager, you never know what this person may like... perhaps she has an older sibling that's the manager's age, and can totally relate.  (I say this, because my youngest is 6 while my oldest is 23... quite an age difference so my 6 yr old is exposed to stuff from a different generation than most 6 yr olds are). 

I really dislike thinking that we're screening folks out of potential jobs based on biases (like age) rather than on skills and abilities.  Isn't this just what we've been fighting for years, not to be judged by biases?  ie:  A PA has to be a woman, has to have a certain look (insert favorite successful television secretary), has to be a certain age.  According to this thread, it appears that we haven't made much advances in this department... that experience and skill set matter, but only after age is factored.  So for that 20 something who worked as the PA in her parent's business from 14 on... who was working in a professional office somewhere up the chain by 21... who graduated while working her way through college as a PA and is now ready to settle into career position... tough breaks, wait till you get older, even if you've proven yourself in the working field already... your time will come when you meet that magical number.  Oh... and just to be sure to be fair... this age issue works both ways.  So another position, the 20-something might be considered, but anyone over 30, 40, 50, whatever, is not because that manager is in their 20's and wants someone who "gets" them, no matter their skill sets.  So is this ok too?  (take out the EEO claims that this would cause, just compare the two and explain why one is 'ok' and one is not, if that's the take.)

For Gee...  I have not been made redundant, though I do understand the process of last in, first out, and understand that this can happen to great employees, as it has happened to my husband.  I believe you missed the start of my post and just jumped on the "job hopping".  I started saying "First, job hopping is different that being made redundant and taking temp jobs while searching for a new job.  I think that this is fairly noticable to an experienced reviewer. "  An experienced reviewer will also know the companies in the area who are experiencing financial difficulties or other issues that may arise causing the redundancies you mention.  They are also aware of an influx of bodies back into the job market because of redundancies going on with various companies.  And based upon your comments over the years on this site, I believe you have the skills and knowledge to do your research on a potential company that may hire you and to choose as wisely as you can (none of us are fortune tellers!) when taking a job so that you aren't taking a job in a company that may be having difficulties.  I really do not see a good employee like yourself being made redundant 8 times in 10 years, and if you did have the misfortune to have it happen that often in such a short amount of time, then you'd also have a way of selling it on the CV to ensure that it does not come across as job hopping.  My husband has been made redundant 3 times in the past 5 years, so we've had to work on his CV to ensure that he does not appear to be job hopping, so I know the tribulations you've dealt with in doing this.
That  being said, I have seen an experienced PA (a personal friend of mine), at an executive level, who jumped from job to job not due to redundancy but because of her alone.  On paper, she looks good, with all the criteria and skills and experience one expects from someone for that level.  However, it appears that she was promoted to that position originally by knowing the right people, not because of skills and abilities, and since that person left the company, she has been let go and jumped from post to post because of her lack personable skills or "soft" skills.  She is rude, belligerent, gossips, etc... and this was not an issue (evidently) for her original boss, but all others have had issues with this.  THIS is the person I would be trying to screen out, looking for someone who doesn't seem to keep a job past the probationary period in any company.  A person who has worked at several solvent and upward moving companies (ie: no one else is being let go from those companies) but still has not been kept on past the initial 3-8 months.

We have a framework for recruiting candidates and use application forms.  We do ask for reasons why people left jobs. 

We screen candidates according to the skill set required as well as the way their career history hangs together and what the personal statement says.  We screen out those that clearly don't demonstrate they have read the job profile correctly.  We don't discriminate against any candidate and give equal opportunity to people of any age.  Indeed we have people who are very young and people who are well past the standard retirement age working for us. 

Job hopping is something we are careful about in candidates, but it wouldn't bar such a person from being called to interview.  We would ask more detailed questions in these circumstances.

I'm a job hopper for the most part. I stay at places 3-4 years and then get bored. Is what it is. As long as they allow me to keep learning and expanding my skill set, I would stay.

Three or four years is a good space of time.  A couple of years at the start of a career is ok too while you are getting experience and finding your niche.  Any less and it can become hard to really learn and grow a job.  It depends on the industry. 

Countrigal - Ever see those shows where they take a beautiful woman and put her in a fat suit?  Of course she is treated different.  It's not right it's not fair.  I agree that we really haven't come very far in equality.   I've been an admin for over 20 years, worked in several industries and have probably seen every type of screening (or lack of screening) possible for new employees.  Consider that most jobs are receiving thousands of resumes, having anything that might be considered a flaw will red flag your resume.